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Don Cunningham
17th July 2003, 04:54
On another thread, the discussion centered on a martial arts yahoo who self-proclaimed the title of "professor" because he felt that he was entitled to such respect and honor due to his achievements in the martial arts. In reply to questions, he further claimed that he was far more "street wise" than most any university educator even though he apparently never earned any degree. He wrote that most teachers don't even know when to come in from the rain.

Finally, in frustration, his response turned to something more like, "Nyah, nyah, I don't care what other people think of me."

The irony seems pretty clear to me. Obviously, he does care very much about what others think about him. Why else would someone append such a title to his or her name? Why self-award yourself with any title unless you think it might impress others?

It seems there are a lot of so-called martial arts teachers going around calling themselves soke, grandmaster, shihan, etc. With increased awareness and education, though, most of us realize these titles are silly. They might as well hang a sign around their neck proclaiming themselves as "dumb ass" when they use such titles.

However, there seem to be more cases of insecure individuals awarding themselves with bogus academic titles, such as doctor or professor. Is it possible they are proclaiming themselves as "dumber ass"?

For scientific purposes, I propose the following categorizations:

Dumb Ass

The inappropriate use of titles such as kenshi, shihan, etc.
The self-awarded grade or rank beyond 10th dan.

More Dumb Ass

Claiming the title of soke. Extra points if they are under the age of 30.

Most Dumb Ass

The self awarding of academic titles, such as doctor or professor. Extra points if they paid someone else for this "honor."

Don Cunningham
17th July 2003, 05:12
First addendum to the above proposal:

More Dumb Ass

Bonus points if they are under the age of 20. Double points if they registered with any online "sokeship" council.

John Lindsey
17th July 2003, 05:14
And those of us who can make predictions about these people will be known as "Nostradumbass"

John Lindsey
17th July 2003, 05:27
Here is a quatrain from Mr. N that seems to have predicted the bad budo forum:

The end of wolf, lion, ox and ass,
Timid deer they will be with mastiffs:
No longer will the sweet manna fall upon them,
More vigilance and watch for the mastiffs.

Shitoryu Dude
17th July 2003, 05:31
I was hoping to see;

Extreme Dumb Ass
Someone who makes money off of non-existant, semi-mystical abilites.
Extra points for telekinesis, telepathy, levitation, or chi/ki manipulation/abilities.

:beer:

Bushi Jon
17th July 2003, 14:25
Okay have a degree? Into martial arts over thirty just under forty. I like to make fun of people and stir heated debate. What would my title be.

glad2bhere
17th July 2003, 14:42
Dear Don:

I think your question may be over-looking the obvious answer to your question.

The overwhelming numbers of MA practitioners in the world today are more engaged in "martial theatre" than anything else. This entails dressing-up in exotic costumes, performing exotic rituals, professing exotic powers, and--- yes--- espousing exotic titles.

Traditionally, martial arts training and its attendent character development would take a lot of time under a competent teacher. This is because it takes time for the teachings of a discipline to filter through all levels of a persons' being and work their change. People who have not the disposition to work and apply themselves over time desire the recognition and status of their community as though they had this nature.

Power, in its many forms, is heady stuff. To call oneself a doctor, or a policeman evokes considerable regard from people. However, if you represent yourself as a doctor or a lawyer, or a policeman or a cleric and have not the proper credentials there are sanctions involved. The MA is one of the last places in our community where a person can represent themselves as powerful without actually having to prove anything. In a way its kind of like the kids who play "dress-up" in their parents clothes in order to pretend that they have acquired adulthood when it is obvious that they have not.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Don Cunningham
17th July 2003, 16:33
I agree 100 percent with you, Bruce. I've always considered those who adopt such titles are basically trying to compensate for their inadequacies. Their insecurities and inner fears are the root of the problem. Associating themselves with what they perceive as powerful icons apparently is their way of dealing with it.

I meant this thread to be a tongue-in-cheek response to Ralph "Kamiyama (Mountain God?)" Severe's responses to his inappropriate use of the professor title. However, here are some of my more serious thoughts on the subject.

Dangers of self-proclaimed masters (http://www.e-budokai.com/articles/masters.htm)

Self-defense hysteria in the martial arts (http://www.e-budokai.com/articles/hysteria.htm)

Martial arts sports versus combative styles (http://www.e-budokai.com/articles/combat.htm)

17th July 2003, 20:33
Originally posted by BUSHI JON
Okay have a degree? Into martial arts over thirty just under forty. I like to make fun of people and stir heated debate. What would my title be.

Anybody want to guess as to who the "Juko Kai" representative of this thread is?

Would EXTREME DUMBASS include such titles as, "The Father of Modern Day Jujutsu?"

pgsmith
17th July 2003, 20:37
We all must remember to be careful of blanket statements though. There are quite a few around here that enjoy throwing rocks and saying things like ... "anyone that uses the title soke and didn't inherit a system is stupid and knows nothing about the Japanese!"
I always try and remind people that budo has no absolutes. There are exceptions to everything and so people shouldn't make blanket statements. I would love to be a fly on the wall when one of our self-proclaimed experts on what is correct and what isn't goes and explains this statement to Obata Toshishiro. Tell him that he's stupid and knows nothing about the Japanese because people in his organization refer to him as Soke. Or you could just call him "More Dumb Ass?"

It makes a funny picture! :D

Cheers,

Shitoryu Dude
17th July 2003, 21:54
Anyone who tells you to "swirl around your chi" must qualify ass a dumb ass of an extreme sort.

I just want to see if he is willing to take the "Pepsi Challenge" of his Combat Chi by having me wind up on his skull with a baseball bat :cool: I think he has yet to collect his million dollars from James Randi who has also called him a total fraud.

:beer:

glad2bhere
18th July 2003, 14:06
".....I would love to be a fly on the wall when one of our self-proclaimed experts on what is correct and what isn't goes and explains this statement to Obata Toshishiro......"

Yeah, Obata Sensei DOES represent a bit of a conundrum. On the one hand some more traditional folks might consider him a fake of sorts. Yet, on the other hand he seems to be moving in a direction to make a decent contribution to Japanese Sword. Someone else will have to speak to the actual content of his curriculum as I practice Korean rather than Japanese sword and am not in a place to make any sort of judgements along these lines.

All the same, Obata seems to represent, to me, one of those persons who wants to make a productive contribution and perhaps should not be lumped into the same category as others. For instance, I would bet that Goju-ryu folks probably didn't feel all warm and fuzzy about Miyagi and his approach to that art. And I know from reading other strings on this Net that there are quite a few bad feelings between and among various Okinawa-te traditions as people express their philosophies to the next generations.

What I seem to be gathering from Dons' original view is that there are personalities in the KMA, JMA and CMA communities that make much of positions and titles while having only the barest minimum of bonafides to support this. I even remember a sterling post by Dr. Karl Friday actually articulating the nuances of the term "soke" apparently in response to its over-use/mis-use by folks in the MA community. However, if its any consolation we KMA practictioners have our own problems. Within the context of KMA there is not nor has there ever been a term "master" or "grandmaster" but that has never stopped even highly regarded KMA leaders from using one or both titles on a daily basis. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bushi Jon
24th July 2003, 17:32
Hey Jeff were you refering to me? If so please do not start any rumors or undocumented claims about me! I will be glad to tell you wwith whom I am affiliated with if you would like to e-mail me. But what it all boils down to my small circle of life does not include you so you do not count.Ha

24th July 2003, 17:44
I'm well aware of who you are affiliated with.

Bushi Jon
24th July 2003, 19:22
No jeff you do not know.But that does not matter I will allways be me

24th July 2003, 19:24
I do too. I used "the force" which I obtained from years of Kiyojute Ryu training. You're not fooling anyone.

:D

Bushi Jon
25th July 2003, 14:33
Thank God I just want to be me