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monkeyboy_ssj
17th July 2003, 17:37
Ok, what would you do if martial arts were declared illegal tomorrow and if you practiced it you would be put in jail for 5 years and teachers would get life.

I don’t want people saying “But it’s our right to do it and it’s in the constitution, and they can’t do that.” This is just a ‘what if’.

Would you still do it? Or would you figure out a way of doing it so you would not get caught. Or would it be against your morals to break the law?

This thread came about from in the news there are a lot of people killing with samurai katana and being declared as “Martial arts nuts” and it just got me thinking.

Would you stop teaching but still learn because of the shorter sentencing or is martial arts so important to you and such a huge part of your life that you would be willing to face the consequences due to your beliefs?

Me, I wouldn’t care. I would practice in remote places, and even if they did track me down then I would run and if I were caught then I would go to jail. And as soon as I came out I would start training again.

Everyone’s thoughts?

Cheers

avehnor
17th July 2003, 17:58
Over the centuries martial arts has had its share of infamy. Martial arts, in various countries, were indeed outlawed.

I don't remember what it's called, but it starts with a "C". It's like capalero or some such. It's very dance-like, but it is a martial art. Their style of martial art was outlawed, so they found ways around those laws. They altered their techniques. When an authority figure walked by, they were just dancing... despite they themselves knowing that these moves were actually kinda deadly, if need be.

So, yah, let's say that martial arts was declared illegal. Let it be. Those of us who aren't afraid to change will find ways of still practising and learning. :)

As they say about aikido, "it's a lot like dancing." Actually, I think that's a Terry Dobson book. :)

dirithtai
17th July 2003, 18:00
I'd move to another country.

Chrono
17th July 2003, 18:08
If I recall correctly I believe it was outlawed in China (if I am wrong please correct me). What they did is they had stage plays or something similiar and they made it a sort of dance to teach it. They found a way around the law. If it were outlawed here people would find dozens of other ways around it.

Personally, I'd be with them and continue on learning.


Jon

monkeyboy_ssj
17th July 2003, 18:16
Originally posted by dirithtai
I'd move to another country.

No! but you can't because it's illegal EVERYWHERE! now what would you do?

I love being difficult ;P

monkeyboy_ssj
17th July 2003, 18:22
Originally posted by Chrono
If I recall correctly I believe it was outlawed in China (if I am wrong please correct me). What they did is they had stage plays or something similiar and they made it a sort of dance to teach it. They found a way around the law. If it were outlawed here people would find dozens of other ways around it.

Personally, I'd be with them and continue on learning.


Jon

I think the time was called "The yellow Turban Uprising" against various opposing forces, just after the fall of the Ming Dynasty.

When you see in kung fu, people saluting with a hand over a fist this is a salut the the Ming.

The kangi for Ming meaning is a sun over a moon, thus the hand jesture looking that way.

This was when the Triads were formed, and the horse stance became infermous within kung fu because they had to practice on boats with low roofs.

Classical Chinese Opera is basically a form of story telling, which does us many forms of Gung Fu. I recommend reading theJackie Chan bio if you want to first hand explaination, also it's an amazing book. i've read it easily over 20 times.

Charlie Kondek
17th July 2003, 18:26
capoeira (sp?)

i would play rugby or similar combative sport and/or practice in secret.

(eating as i type this.)

elder999
17th July 2003, 18:57
Well, I'd practice in secret....
...may as well ask what we'd do if they made our religion illegal, eh?

Shitoryu Dude
17th July 2003, 19:10
Larry Niven forsaw a time when all forms of fighting knowledge were illegal. You learned MA or boxing in illegal gyms run by illegal experts, commonly out of someone's garage or living room. Only the military were allowed to train or have weapons of any kind.

His predictions of human behavior have usually been born out.

:beer:

Charlie Kondek
17th July 2003, 19:52
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
Larry Niven forsaw a time when all forms of fighting knowledge were illegal. You learned MA or boxing in illegal gyms run by illegal experts, commonly out of someone's garage or living room. Only the military were allowed to train or have weapons of any kind.

His predictions of human behavior have usually been born out.

:beer:


Great! When do we get to Ringworld?

elder999
17th July 2003, 20:00
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
His predictions of human behavior have usually been born out.

:beer:

Yes...and his political inclinations more than suspect.....

...but I'm pretty sure that fighting arts will be first regulated, and then regulated into hiding......

Shitoryu Dude
17th July 2003, 20:08
You want Ringworld? Human behavior is one thing, engineering is another. He had to violate a few laws of physics to get the thing to work if I remember right.

I never thought much about his politics. It seemed to me that a severely overpopulated planet, which we are well on the way toward, would generate many of the things he forcasted - which are primarily loss of personal freedoms.

:beer:

Soulend
17th July 2003, 21:39
Like some have already said, I would continue to train in secret - perhaps even in the swampest places! (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19248&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) Actually most of the outdoor places I train are so remote(don't like spectators) I wouldn't be particularly affected anyway.

A. M. Jauregui
17th July 2003, 22:38
If all martial arts everywhere were outlawed it would be time to take up aikido wouldn’t it. For it looks enough like a dance already. ;) *I am not knocking aikido - at times it simply looks very artistic and dance like in nature*

Banning learning how to fight is not going to stop people from fighting, so altercations, street fights, and underground “fight clubs“ would still exist as places where to pick up a few tricks...

If people want to do something bad enough they will find a way to get it done.

kage110
18th July 2003, 10:25
I don't remember what it's called, but it starts with a "C". It's like capalero or some such. It's very dance-like, but it is a martial art. Their style of martial art was outlawed, so they found ways around those laws. They altered their techniques. When an authority figure walked by, they were just dancing... despite they themselves knowing that these moves were actually kinda deadly, if need be.

Sita,

I believe what you are talking about Capoeira which was an African fighting art taken to Brazil by the slaves. The slave owners obviously did not want their 'property' being able to fight back so the fighting art was altered into a dance form (along with music and singing) to disguise it. Still is a very effective art and currently becoming more and more popular.

Bud_Wiser
18th July 2003, 11:10
The Filipino Martial Arts (arnis / kali / escrima) were somewhat driven underground by the Spanish and I guess also by the Americans and of course the Japanese.

In fact, FMA strikes and movements are hidden in some of some folk dances and was a way to practice the "illegal" art out in the open.

Andrei Arefiev
18th July 2003, 12:21
Hello,

While I'm unclear on details, as I was too young at that time, the martial arts practice was banned in the USSR around 1980. If I'm not mistaken, the ban was put on the practice of karate, but that meant that everything remotely resembling it, was effectively prohibited. I'm not sure if the ban was formally lifted at some point, but it stopped to be enforced in the end of the 80's and that's when much of MA practice in Russia started.

As for how people dealt with it, most went underground and continued to somehow practice in secret. Some were probably caught doing so and persecuted, but I have no information of whether it was actually so, as it's not a topic of much interest for me.

But then, didn't the Japanese find a way to go on practicing when budo was banned after WWII?

Best,

Walt Harms
18th July 2003, 17:06
After the war the japanese started went to the military government calling budo sport, got permission to train and lead off with judo followed by kendo and karate (jka). Practiced judo/karate mostly in colleges. However in doing so they changed the flavor and some say the effectiveness of thier arts.

Walt Harms

Ron Tisdale
18th July 2003, 18:05
Ueshiba Sensei went to Iwama to avoid that whole tangle (and probably for other reasons as well).

RT

chizikunbo
18th July 2003, 19:30
Even when outlawed by the government in Okinawa, the martial arts were still secretly taught and practiced, and just like the Bushi of that day I would still keep learning and practicing.

dirithtai
18th July 2003, 19:53
Originally posted by monkeyboy_ssj


No! but you can't because it's illegal EVERYWHERE! now what would you do?

I love being difficult ;P



Bloody razafrazin....

Okay, Assumin the option of moving to another planet is also out...

I'd start a revolution, overthrow the current world government, and re-instate martial arts as a legit practice. Any government that would restrict things to that extent is not a just and equitable system, and it would be every citizens duty to see it removed post haste. Hell, its what we train to do.

chizikunbo
18th July 2003, 20:00
:eek: Laghing hystaricly, falls out of chair hits head, hehehe:D

bruceb
18th July 2003, 23:10
Just like every other hidden martial art, we would practice in the manner of dances, adapt physical efforts so they looked benign yet they trained martially, and we would quietly adapt the knowledge to be given verbally, in some form, and martial arts would look like accidental movements.

Since there would be no martial arts, the study of pressure points, human anatomy would be top of the list for any type of self-defense that is not seen as self defense, but as common knowledge.

IF MARTIAL ARTS WERE DECLARED ILLEGAL ... there would most certainly be a variety of non-lethal weapons that citizens would be allowed to carry on their person as an alternative.

Adapt, change, overcome .... the human spirit will always do this no matter what the obstacle.

monkeyboy_ssj
19th July 2003, 15:11
I would sure like to see you dancing Bruce ;)

But would you be willing to go to Prison if they did figure it out and caught you.

and would do it as soon as you came straight out?

Cheers

seskoad
19th July 2003, 15:31
Capoeira being illegal? wow....that's new.

So far I know there's organization like martial art or should I say like wushu, banned in China. This organization teach about process by breathing. I met the one of the representative of this kind in front of state library when they were promoting and need support to get right in China. And the lady thought I was Chinese :D. Anyway, I asked her why it was banned in china and the answer is simply because it gets more follower day by day. How pathetic is that? Well, who knows about the riddle of commi :D.

I forgot the exact name of this organization. Please if e budoka know about it, tell me more detail about it. Such confusion for me until now about the reason of banning this organization in China.

PwarYuex
21st July 2003, 02:34
I'd keep practicing, because the police would be (now) untrained.

Chuck Munyon
21st July 2003, 13:19
Umar, the movement you are talking about is Falun-Gong, a religious sect which involves using Chi Gung like movements and meditations, and has stated its dissatisfaction with the government in China many times. Don't know a lot about it, as most of its overt practitioners are currently in Chinese prisons.

Yojimbo558
28th July 2003, 06:34
Hi there,

My friends & I would continue to train. Be it China or during the American occupation of Japan after WW II...history has already showed that places where martial arts were either restricted or banned were defied.

People maintain what they feel protects them regardless of what ever stance is before them. The banning of Bujutsu styles in Japan didn't eliminate these styles...they just went underground and then resurfaced later when the mood had changed.

This would be the same.

Eric L. Bookin

primeape
28th July 2003, 06:44
Here a two cent worth from reality: back in the 1980's MA were forbidden in Soviet Union, with judo excepted since it was an olympian sport. In Estonia (this according to estonian sources, first and second hand) people booked hours on basketball courts to train karate and some aikido, but doing it in basketball clothes with some balls available if somebody happened to open the door at the wrong moment. Practically every school had a basketball court for wintertime PE, and some of these were available sometimes when not used for junior basket or volleyball. Anyway, they found a way round the law and avoided detection.


Seems you can not keep willing practitioners down, and obstacles just make them that more enthusiastic....

Primeape
Vesa Varhee
Helsinki
No suitable motto this morning