View Full Version : police request ban on swords in UK county

27th July 2003, 22:35
Worrying development from Cleveland police ( the U.K. county, not U.S.)...
due to a local nutcase stabbing someone in the back and killing him, they have requested a ban on all ceremonial ( read 'samurai' in most newspapers..) swords. All local shops in the area have had the 'visit' asking to have blades removed from display.
Hopefully this isn't the thin end of the wedge that will go in a similar vein to the eventual ban of handguns from an incident where another nutcase killed people...carving knives next perhaps? There goes my sunday beef dinner...:(

Tim Hamilton

27th July 2003, 23:26
An "interesting" related article:

"So easy to buy 'lethal' sword set" (http://icteesside.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0001head/content_objectid=13184021_method=full_siteid=50080_headline=-So-easy-to-buy--lethal--sword-set-name_page.html)

A sad knee-jerk reaction, much like with the guns. I wonder if iaito would be exempt?

If this ban is passed, and especially if it is adopted in other counties-or perhaps U.K.-wide, we will get to see progressive banning in action. It works like this:

1. Ban weapons which 'the man on the street' would see as having no value to a civilian owner, except as the instruments of criminals and murderers, and which few would object to being banned.

2. After years of this, ban weapons similar in appearance or operation - or simply just another type of object with which some psycho has recently killed someone, which once again the layman (now used to the absence of weapons banned in step #1) would see as having little value besides to aid criminal activity.

3. Once everyone has gotten used to this, then ban weapons that share some characteristics of weapons which were banned previously. Some looney killing someone with one of the targeted weapons always helps too.

4. Go back to 3. Different characteristics. Endless loop until everything is banned. Lack of effect on total crime rate ignored or explained away.

Another object lesson which we can benefit from here in the U.S. If I was a kenjutsuka or iaidoka in Cleveland I would be raising nine kinds of hell!

-David 'glad to be where tameshigiri may be legally performed' Craik

28th July 2003, 09:59
Looks like the politicians and media spy a new bandwagen coming for them all to jump on!

Maybe they need to sit down and think about this 1 ....

Banning ceremonial swords? Does this mean that if you buy a sword for hacking someone to bits with, or practicing a legitamite martial art with (i.e. not for ceremony/decoration) the sword is perfectly legal. That seems silly to me.

Picture this ... a man comes down the road carrying a large samurai sword. Do you a) ignore him? or b) run away and call the cops?. Now repeat the exercise with this: A man comes down the road carrrying a concealed knife. Do you a) ignore him or b) run away and call the cops.

Basically what i'm saying is that a samurai sword does not make a good everyday weapon because people tend to notice you carrying one. Yes, it can be concealed (with a bit of thought), but it's a lot easier to conceal a knife. This makes the knife a lot more attractive as a weapon to a criminal.

The only people who carry swords down the street as weapons are wackos who aren't aware/no longer care about being seen. Maybe tighter controls on wackos rather than weapons is needed?

28th July 2003, 11:53
I think they've used 'ceremonial' to catch all swords...the local area has a pretty bad reputation for violent crimes, and what I cant believe is that no-one reported this nutter for carrying it in the street! The guy was running away BTW, which is why he was stabbed in the back.
What really bugs me is the fact that we dont just lock these people up and throw away the key. He'll be out in a couple of years and able to do it again if he likes, next time it'll be with sai or nunchaku and he'll get them banned as well...

Tim Hamilton

28th July 2003, 15:14
.......and if I whittle a sharp point on my little wooden training sticks, does that mean if someone kills another person with one of those we will ban wood too?

Maybe it is prudent to observe caution for a period of time and put a few more preventive measures in place but we are never gonna make this or any society 100% safe from some kind of weapon or unstable individual, are we?

In NJ, USA, there are laws on the books for edge knives and swords being carried as weapons and not as training tools, so whether people know it or not, unless you are in a parade or using them for a practice session, they should be carried in an appropriate container where they not a danger.

Oh well ... each society has its fears and fobia's to deal with. Hopefully sanity returns in a short while and the problems are dealt with by the community, not just with the legislative process or creating more laws for law enforcement.

Daniel san
28th July 2003, 17:39
As my first act as World Dictator I intend to ban all rocks and stones. Not only projectile sized stones but also anything made from rock. This includes buildings because ANYBODY could just walk down the street and fall on this way too sturdy surface, not to mention all the thugs out there who are hell bent on smacking our heads. Yes, I propose an end to all blunt trauma. Senator Bruce is writing the proposal on wood which will be very effective in ending the decades long battle with these nefarious plants. My goal is larger, however, and will create jobs in our new, softer world. Styrofoam buildings, rubber roads, and lace doors. We will need everyone to help pile up all the Old rocks in a new holding facility. This means you. Out with the old in with the new. Vote for me.