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Chad Bruttomesso
12th June 2000, 17:40
Greetings! Over the weekend, while reviewing for an up coming exam, I came across a notation in my training handbook that listed seminar attendance as one of the test requirements. After reviewing training handbooks for other organizations I realized that it is a common practice, in America, to require Aikidoka to attend a certain amount of seminars per year in order to qualify for testing. While living in Japan I never heard mention of this requirement for Aikido (I did for Iaido though).

I can see both positive and negative aspects of this practice. What does everyone else think about this? Is it a good idea to require Aikidoka to attend seminars? Why is it necessary to attend seminars?

Maybe these late night ponderings are a bit inane, but I would like to hear what people think and how they feel about this. After we have a few replies to this topic I will post my opinion. I would hate to influence things from the get go.

Thank you for your time.


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Chad Bruttomesso

Kolschey
12th June 2000, 19:24
I do not thinks that Seminar attendance is unreasonable, provided that the organisation does not make excessive demands. What exactly is a reasonable quantity of outside training is it's own branch of the topic which I will save for another post or thread, as that is likely to be a somewhat provocative issue.
Seminar attendance has several benefits. One of the must notable ones is the opportunity to encounter other individuals and schools. This benefits you through training with people who may perform technique or ukemi differently. "Funny, this pin always seems to work better on my friend Jack. This fellow's punch isn't as straight as Maria's, I will have to change my angle of entry." Dozens of thoughts like this may occur in training when your environment and partners change. This helps you to be more adaptable to a variety of temperments and body types. You will also benefit in making friends and acquantances. If you are traveling, it can be a good thing to have friends who train in the area you are visiting. This also means that in future seminars, you do not feel as intimidated by what appears to be a room full of strangers. This is a serious consideration for beginners, who are understandably afraid of becoming wallflowers whom no one wants to practice with. Indeed, this is often why the sooner one begins to attend seminars, the better, as you will have the opportunity to appreciate the sense of a larger community.
Another value in seminars is that it will bring you to the attention of the seniors of the art, who will one day be judging your progress. This will assist you, as they will be better able to guide your practice towards the skills, methods, technique, and attitude, that they feel is appropriate to the art. As testing is a fact of life for most students, it helps not to go in cold to a belt test. It also benefits instructors to go to seminars. Often, they will observe other sudents or examinations and return to their own teaching with a desire to reemphasise the proverbial basics of the art.
Lastly, it is of great value to have the opportunity to see the seniors of your art. Many of them are the last living connection to the previous generation of Aikidoka, including the Founder. It can give you a very different understanding to see those who have practiced an art form for many years, sometimes for longer than you have been alive. Overall, I have found seminars to be positive experiences.

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Krzysztof M. Mathews
" For I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me"
-Rudyard Kipling

Gil Gillespie
13th June 2000, 06:34
Amen!! To me seminars have 2 real values.One is that the instructor is different from & usually higher ranked than your everyday dojo sensei. You will seenot only different applications of your dojo sensei's instructions but very often the groundwork that s(he) learned from!

The other even greater benefit is that you will train with folks from all over! There are old friends that I only see once ortwice a yearin seminars. I cherish & look forward to those experiences. higher belt testing iscool but without the above 2 considerations they would be lifeless.

Gil

MarkF
13th June 2000, 11:01
Good arguments for the seminars, but there must be some against this practice. If it really is to practice with other training partners, why not just go to another dojo now and then? Why would seminar attendance help your teacher grade you on the basis of attending these adventures? Are there really ulterior motives in making this mandatory? Have you questioned your sensei, or indeed, the style you do compared with Maria?

With all that said, please don't get me wrong. One can learn an awful lot at seminars, but possibly someone has a different outlook on these things? What about affordability? Is it something which, even if a hardship, one should endeavor to get there anyway, or are there adjustment which allow for this all ready? Like most people, I do have an opinion, but I would love to hear arguments on both sides.

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Mark F. Feigenbaum

Gil Gillespie
13th June 2000, 17:22
I do have a problem with making seminar attendance mandatory. There is a wonderful Aikido summer camp in the Colorado Rockies that I have never been able to afford and probably never will. For many of my colleagues it is one of the main focuses of their whole year & I admire that they can pull it off. Also as fees approach $100 for a weekend seminar that increasingly becomes a factor, even though I acknowledge that instructors of seminar caliber can't traipse around the continent for free.

Currently I am planning on a Labor Day Weekend MJERI seminar in San Diego which will be attended by 80 yr old Miura Hanshi from Osaka (20th Grandmaster) and several senior senseis. He is under consideration for Living National Treasure in Japan & even that consideration is a life honor. I know it will be a once-in-a-lifetime training opportunity yet even my plans must be balanced against the cold realities of the family balance sheet. I know I may not be able to pull it off.

So if seminar attendance is made mandatory (which I oppose) it should be restricted to a reasonable radius. No one should ever be required to attend a seminar where they can't drive home & sleep in their own bed.

I dunno,Mark. Is this enough of a downside?

;-) Gil

MarkF
15th June 2000, 10:35
It's enough for me Gil http://216.10.1.92/ubb/wink.gif I have never seen the upside to these things above the opportunity, as you said, to see someone you greatly admire, or to train with a different school. Then again, I participated in shiai and I always consider that a kind of seminar as you do play randori with people from many different dojo, and if you are lucky, may even take home a souvenir. Even today, I particiate, but not as a player, just as an official. As long as the general wa of the tournament is good, I think them great learning tools.

Seminars are troublesome in that demonstrations are sometimes questionable, and, of course, they are expensive. The training is good, on the whole, but one should be able to train occasionally at differing dojo with differing schools of thought.

OK, Gil, I brought it down further http://216.10.1.92/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Mark F. Feigenbaum

Chad Bruttomesso
26th June 2000, 04:06
Wow, what a great round of posts. Thank you each and every one.

I too have an opinion on this subject. First, I enjoy seminars. I like seeing friends I haven’t seen in a long time, training under instructors that are special in one way or another and training with new uke. I always seem to have one of those “Ah Ha” moments at seminars.

In my humble opinion (please help me see the error of my ways) I don’t see why seminar attendance is REQUIRED. Over the years I have come to believe that testing was an honor given by your sensei when he/she thought that you had attained the experience, spiritual level, etc. to move up a rung on the ladder of rank. Having to spend the money to travel to a seminar, pay for the seminar and all other expenses seems to be a treat that some of us can’t afford. How can you require someone to fork out that kind of cash when they don’t have it?

One way or another I seem to find a way to make it to the seminars that truly interest me ,but, what about those less fortunate?

Just a thought. Thank you for your time.

Have a great day,

Joseph Svinth
26th June 2000, 08:34
Chad --

The true believers would say that someone who was truly dedicated, who truly cared, would make whatever sacrifices were necessary to attend. Families, jobs, injuries, etc., are simply excuses for your lack of commitment. As for the instructors requiring airfare, lodging, food, spending money, and whatever else, this is not commercial interest on their part; it is not for us to judge our betters by the pedestrian constraints by which others live by.

The cynics meanwhile would say that the reason for mandatory attendance is for the promoters to either make money, or at a minimum subsidize their own training. It is, after all, often no more expensive to bring the big guys and gals to you than it is to go to them, and if you do this, then getting all your students to subsidize the experience means you might actually make money.

Look at it this way. You decide to go to the Big Guy's home dojo for a couple weeks. With lodging, airfare, and taking the spouse and kids on vacation, figure at least $200 a day in the US or Europe, and twice that in Japan. While at the Big Guy's home dojo, you get a few minutes of face time with the Big Guy a day. On the other hand, if you bring the Big Guy to your place, you pay his airfare (one person instead of four -- you, the spouse, and the kids), put the Big Guy up in the spare bedroom (no overhead), and drive him around. So this costs the promoter a few hundred to a few thousand bucks for airfare and another couple grand for facilities and fancy dinners. S/he gets some money back from seminar attendees, and meanwhile gets a week or two of face time with the Big Guy. The result is a net savings to the promoter of between $4-8,000.

Does this help explain why attendance is mandatory? For true believers, the sacrifice proves the seriousness of your intent, and for the promoters, it guarantees the gate.

Chuck Clark
26th June 2000, 15:51
Another reason for requiring yudansha to attend a certain number of seminars could be that the teacher continues to learn and develop their practice. If you are connected with this teacher and stay away for some time, you won't experience any of the current stuff.

Many professions require continuing education attendance to keep "current." Most of the teachers I know don't charge enough that it should be a hardship to attend at least one seminar a year.

Regards,

George Ledyard
27th June 2000, 02:43
Our organization has some requirements for seminar attendance and I do at the dojo as well. The reasons for the organization requirements are easy to understand. in the old days (twenty plus years ago) Saotome Sensei knew the names of each Yudansha in the ASU. Each Yudansha was trained directly himself, Ikeda Sensei, or one of a small handful of senior students whose dojos he visited regularly. Now the organization has thousands. The current crop of up and coming Yudansha are several steps removed from Saotome and Ikeda Sensei. I have students of mine who are out running dojos and creating yudansha.

In our organization there is till some emphasis on trying to maintain at least a little bit of connection with the teachers whose status and recognition in the Aikido world underwrites our ranks. Also, it seems silly to have an organization in which the senior students have little or no contact with the other senior members of the same organization.

People whine all the time about the cost of the camps. I myself have a hard time making them each year and usually need to space them out a bit. But if you really look at it closely the cost is just an excuse a lot of the time. It costs me about $800 - $900 to go to DC Summer Camp or Boulder Camp. The DC dojo lets you stay in the dojo if you want but I usually stay with old friends. If you knew that you had to hit a camp within a year before you had to test for a rank, you should simply start saving for it. If you start in advance the cost is covered if you simply put $75 a month away.

I discovered what an excuse the money issue was when I changed the way I handled seminars at my own dojo. I have a fairly thriving school by Aikido standards with about 90 people when you put adults, kids, and police together. Money is always tight but that is due to the fact that I have a very large combined family and that makes things difficult. If I were like many of the instructors I know with few outside responsibilities I would be hitting every seminar around. I have always considered having a dojo that is strong like this to be a resource for the Aikido community. Many folks have dojos that are too small too bring in the best instructors or any at all. I have tried over the years to use the strength of the dojo to support teachers that don’t get the exposure that their sophistication and experience deserve (that translates as non-Japanese). Anyway, I found that it was very difficult to break even with these instructors. Even though they are some of the finest teachers I have encountered anywhere, the fact that they aren’t Japanese means that they don’t have the same cache and attendance is always minimal; and I am talking about people like Mary Heiny Sensei or William Gleason Sensei who are absolutely top drawer. Not to mention many of the really fine Americans that no one has ever heard of because they are just starting out outside of the dojos where they began their training. Since I am not in the position to subsidize these seminars out of my own pocket, I reached the point wher I was on the verge of only having people like Saotome Sensei or Ikeda sensei where attendance isn’t even something you worry about. But frankly I was philosophically opposed to that. So I added ten dollars to each students monthly fees in the dojo and let every one know that this was a seminar fee which I put in the bank at the beginning of he month. My dojo is large enough that this brings in just enough money that I can invite anyone I want to teach and pay them what they should be paid (I won’t pay the American instructors less than I pay the other teachers who come, except for the uchideshi who are in a class by themselves). And now my students no longer have the excuse of not having the money to attend. Every person in the dojo supports the events and they have liked it because by the time the seminars actually happen they don’t pay anything and it feels like it is free.

What is interesting is that while this has increased seminar attendance somewhat, there are still many people who do not make the least effort to attend even though all they have to do is show up. I realized that for a lot of people the money issue is just an excuse. Remove it and you find out what the real reason is, lack of serious commitment.

Paul Schweer
27th June 2000, 14:10
Hello Joseph,

You said, “Families, jobs, injuries, etc., are simply excuses for your lack of commitment. “

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Would you please explain?

Thank you,

Paul

George Ledyard
27th June 2000, 15:03
Originally posted by Paul Schweer
Hello Joseph,

You said, “Families, jobs, injuries, etc., are simply excuses for your lack of commitment. “

I’m not sure what you mean by this. Would you please explain?

Thank you,

Paul


I beleive that he was being facetious or at least stating a hypothetical position that some teachers seem to represent. But I can tell you how it often shows up. We put our calendar for the year together a year in advance. The seminars, intensives, and one day trainings all all on the calendar well in advance.

There are many people who come to me and say that they can't do this or that because of famil, time, money... I beleive I talked about money enough above. Some people really do have jobs that can't be worked around. One of my senior studenst has a job working as a meat cutter. Maybe once or so a year he gets a weekend off, even after twenty years of seniority. Everybody understands that. But for most of the students the job excuse simply means that they didn't take the trouble to arrange in advance for time off. The events were on the schedule for a year but they don't take the trouble to plan their own training out in advance. We hold two major four day intensives each year. They are alwys on the same dates. These intensives are a very important element of the training that the Yudansha and would be Yudansha go through. Yet consistently I will post the signup list for the training and there will be a small number of people who sign up immediately and a much larger number who seem to be waiting till the last minute. It's almost as if they are waiting to see if something better comes along to do. Thne they say they couldn't get the time off from work. But it's because they didn't actua;;y ask til a week or two before. Had they let their bosses know six months in advance that they needed the time off it would have been different for most of them.

Family issues can be complicated. You can have an unsupportive spouse or a very complex family situation (as I do). But still there are many ways for a commited student to work around those things. Planning your training schedule out for the year well in advance, making sure that you make up for time away from family at other times, making sure that you support your spouse in their activities goes a long way.

The point is that YES! There are always some conflicts tat come up. When a student who normally is making an effort to attend the events is unable to do so I know it's a conflict they couldn't resolve. But for many people who only get there sporadically, always sign up at the last minute then maybe don't show anyway, it's a matter of commitment. There are sinply too many other things that can take priority over their Aikido. That is fine if they are clear about it and aren't pretendingto be serious but sometimes you run into the person who considers himself to be pretty serious because they've been around a long time but they aren't making the effort. This ties back into the issue of making some seminars mandatory. If you want the support of the teacher, want to have rank and get the recognition, then it is perefectly legitimate for a teacher or organization to ask that you make this extra effort. For most contemporary students, who are not able to train everyday, who probably average three days a week, thses extra seminars are an important way in which they can get some intensive training that can take them to a higher level.

Joseph Svinth
27th June 2000, 15:41
Mr. Ledyard understood what I was saying quite well. My statements were perhaps extreme, but I have heard or seen examples of both.

Paul Schweer
27th June 2000, 22:27
Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Mr. Ledyard understood what I was saying quite well. My statements were perhaps extreme, but I have heard or seen examples of both.


This is very embarrassing for me to admit, but….

I read and replied to the first paragraph without reading the remainder of your post.

I’m sorry.

MarkF
28th June 2000, 09:55
Hi, Chuck,
You make a valid point. Continuing education is almost a necessity for those in my profession, pharmacy, and definitely patients want their physicians, nurses, and pharmacists to be up on current practice.

The problem I see is that of a purely a financial one, in this case, anyway. Most who do bugei, are not in it as a day job, and some cannot plain afford it. OK, the argument for sacrifice has been made, but some sacrifice just by working out when they can. Most in the medical field, especially in pharmacy and nursing, the seminars come to them. When they do want to go, it is sponsored by the hospital, hospital association, the A Ph A, or the AMA. When there are fees to be paid and hotel rooms to be booked, most of it is a tax write-off. The drug companies make sure you are abreast of what is new by sending "detail people" who offer to stock the drug cabinets (in doctors' offices), money back guarantees (retail pharmacies), and email and/or in person or letters of intent to distribute (drug pushers, if you will:) ).

Yes, I can see the necessities in learning new ways, but it also is hardship, one in which sensei can do it and bring back what is new, if one is running a private dojo. If the intent of the seminar is to teach new waza or a different approach to an old one, possibly this should be written or published somewhere? Just a thought.

Take care,

Chuck Clark
28th June 2000, 15:11
Hi Mark,

Unfortunately (to some), but fortunately in my estimation, most of the real learning done after you have some basic command of the basics (shodan level) is through direct transmission by feel. You have to have "hands on" with your teacher and a lot of people who're more skillful than you. Reading about it or seeing it on video isn't enough. We need to do that too, but it won't give you that hands on knowledge.

Lots of folks think that because they have been introduced to a technique, kata, etc. and can reproduce the gross form of it (as far as their view goes) that they "know" the material in question and if people fall down then they're "good at it." Not so. If you want to really progress in budo, you must "lay hands on" as often as possible with your seniors. Seminars give a chance for this to happen with people outside your dojo.

George Ledyard
28th June 2000, 16:45
Attending an event that is held by another teacher than your own you might find that everything seems new and difficult. It may really stretch your ability to see and pick up new technique. Whether you do that or not very much depends on what your teacher's attitude is towards training with other teachers. Saotome sensei always encouraged us to train whenever and with whomever we could. He wasn't threatened by what he thought we might encounter. On the other hand there are people who are forbidden by their teachers to train anywhere else. Over the years I have had a number of people "sneak" in to our dojo for an event and not tell their teacher. They were "hungry" for new ideas. Those of you who are worried about the hardship of being required to attend seminars might to well to contemplate the folks who would make great sacrifices just to see something new.

Anyway, if the events you attend host Senseis with whom you have trained for many years, the beneficial part of attending is not so much new information but rather the level of the training partners you have access to. There are very few people in my area of the country that do the kind of Aikido I do or that I can train hard with. That is especially true with weapons because most people out here do very little. When I get to camp I seek out the senior folks with whom I can go full bore. I had a great experience at the DC Summer Camp two summers ago. I did a whole Two Sword class with Pete Trimmer Sensei of the DC dojo. It was the most fun I can remember having. We went absolutely full speed, total intention. At one point I made a mistake and Pete Sensei laid his short sword right upside my nose and didn't so much as bruise me. That level of control that lets you push the envelop with a partner is very hard to come by in a partner. I had a whole two-hour class in which I worked with Gleason Sensei. The techniques being taught were relatively simple ones that we both had done for many years but because of the high level of Gleason Sensei’s training we essentially created our own class within the class which played with the fine points of spacing and timing. One of the best classes I ever did. I paid quite a bit of money to have access to partners of that level and it was worth every penny.

I don’t know what the requirements are for other organizations, but in the ASU you are required to attend two seminars with Saotome and / or Ikeda Sensei in the year before your Shodan exam. After that there is an additional requirement of attending a major training camp before Nidan and up. Well, unless you are moving along at a pace that well exceeds most people in the ranking area, that means over an approximately 10 year period from Shodan to Yondan (we’re assuming you’re training hard) you are required to attend three major training camps and 8 weekend seminars. I am sorry but that does not impose a hardship on any but the most extremely impoverished student. And there is scholarship assistance for those people.

As people are fond of pointing out, membership in a dojo or an organization entails responsibilities. One of them is to support the events that they hold. We do not have a support system for teachers in the states as they do in Japan. There aren’t the sugar daddies that will make huge donations to the dojo in order to support the art or the corporate clubs that can pay for instructors to come in and teach. Most dojos are not large enough to provide a living wage for a teacher, especially on the level that the older Senseis deserve (and require if they are to put anything aside for retirement). They money they make from the seminar circuit is what puts them over the top financially. For an up and coming instructor, the money they receive from teaching seminars might be the deciding point that lets them move to teaching full time, allowing them to dispense with another means of income that interferes with their practice. A little earlier there was someone who intimated that there was a lot of money changing hands in this seminar racket. I look at how hard the Boulder people work to put on the Rocky Mountain camp, the huge investment they have made to be able to hold such an event, the monstrous expense that it takes to put it on, there are a million ways to make more money without the aggravation. And unless you live somewhere that you get more people at a seminar than we do out here (despite a large Aikido population) I can tell you that you are not getting rich hosting weekend seminars either.

Chuck Clark
28th June 2000, 17:10
Hi George,

I think part of the problem is that many people (often without realizing it) have a "fee for service" attitude. They equate paying money as the requirement that has to be met in order to receive any "merchandise or service." This isn't new...Takeda Sokaku required payment of the equivilant to one month's wages per technique!

If a person has a true "student/teacher" relationship with a teacher, then I think there is a "debt that can never be repaid." No one tries to "collect" because it is priceless, and the only way it can be "repaid" is to learn the best you can and then pass it on to others in similar fashion. In no way does this infer that the instruction should be "free," in fact, it's been my experience that people don't value something they get for nothing.

I have never turned a student who really wants to learn away over the lack of money. If the students aren't smart enough to realize that they won't get the quality of instruction they want without "balancing" the giving, they are most likely thinking only of what they can get out of the experience. It's not barter or trade, but there must be a balance. Teachers can tell who has the instinctive nature to make this balance. They can also tell who the one's are who try to get the most they can while giving the least. Sometimes I think one of our national traits is to "get the most for the least" in every instance.

Sorry for the rant. If the shoe don't fit...don't wear it.

szczepan
29th June 2000, 02:51
Hi Chuck,

Your point is very important.I supose one can't learn MA witout giving and not expecting to get something.Very interesting stuff about balance.This kind of balance is very dynamic.Also not very many teachers can deal with it.
With big popularity of aikido, what do you think about 300-500 aikifolks seminars(yeah, that happens more&more often) and balance thing?How teacher can do that with so many students?

redardz

Chuck Clark
29th June 2000, 05:26
Hi Sczcepan,

I have absolutely no idea how a teacher can deal with that many people on a mat at once. My seminars usually have no more than 30 - 60 at the most for a weekend. We're a close group and everyone is used to the learning style we have, so lots of info gets passed and there's loads of hands on experience. I also have help from usually 2 or 3 seniors (2nd and 3rd dans), and at our larger gasshuku we often have several higher dans who do what we call "team teaching" which is very dynamic and exciting. Everyone learns.

I can see the very large groups you're talking about working if its just a celebration get-together where demos take place from senior people and then people do keiko for awhile. However, if its a major learning session, it seems to me that there needs to be lots of seniors whose job it is to supervise and help the sensei.

MarkF
29th June 2000, 09:24
Hi, Chuck,
Late last year, or early this year, you, on one of the infamous aiki threads, invited me to your neck of the woods (OK, we are basically in the same "neck;) ) "to see more of the elephant." I think we are in the same wave length, but only with slightly altered parts of the elephant we have seen thus far. You make a da*n good argument for attending as many seminars as you can, and I will not disagree that "feeling" is so important to the understanding of the waza. It cannot be transmitted orally. However, I did say, I think, that "if your intent is to learn new waza," a seminar is not necessary for the basics of it. I do, agree, that feeling is much better than seeing and I encourage students to close their eyes while experiencing waza that they think they know, and to feel it to understand your upcoming meeting with the mat. Often, I blindfold some, as I have had (and have one now) blind students who make incredible teachers in this way. Another aiki pratitioner who has a judo background says the same so mine is not an argument with seninars as much as it is against inflexibility. This goes not only with being "soft" in the truest sense, but also be flexible enough to include those who have hardships. One would make allowances for a good student who has problems with a particular waza so does one need this "ju" as a matter of more life-related realities.

I also believe everyone should pay something, as this is the manner in which a student pays h/her debt for the introduction. Other manners of payment do present themselves down the road, so consider my comment along those lines. I tend to consider life "right or wrong" with little room for doubt or trust. That's just me.

With all this thinking "outloud" aside, I agree with you. I was only making room for those who really can't do it. Some just do not understand all waza, but feeling certainly is a good way of improving "peripheral vision."

I remember the old days when one was promoted, h/she was instructed to dye his/her obi the proper color (that it all came out on your dogi seemed not to be a problem :D ) This was to avoid a new purchase of a belt. Of course, a dollar bought much more in those days, and a belt was about a buck, but there were not many places closeby to purchase these things.

Regards,



[Edited by MarkF on 06-29-2000 at 03:29 AM]

DJM
1st July 2000, 18:09
Well I'm sat here, aching a little, knowing full well my knees - unused to extensive seiza - will be hurting badly later..
But it's worth it, in spades..
And it'll be worth it when I go back on the mat tomorrow, for another 5 hours.
Yes, it's a weekend course, and yes I will (eventually) get onto topic! ;)
I'm just back from the first day of a course with Ken Cottier, 6th Dan, one of O Sensei's students. His control, and the ease and fluidity of his technique was astounding. I was also very honoured to be asked to Uke for him for a suwari waza technique, the name of which escapes me since my brain is still a little jumpy! The experience was incredible, to the point where I'm still trying to absorb a great deal of what was practiced earlier..
It's reasons like this I feel that more people should be encouraged to attend seminars, no matter what their level. Note - encouraged. Would I have felt like this if attendance had been mandatory? I don't know, since for me attendance ~was~ mandatory. A chance to practice with an Aikidoka of this calibre, and so close to where I live, comes along once in a blue moon and it would have taken teams of wild horses to have kept me away..
Peace,
David

Joseph Svinth
1st July 2000, 23:44
One argument for aikido seminars that no one has mentioned yet is that unlike kendo, judo, and karate, there are (generally) no shiai in aikido. With shiai, you get to see what the neighbors are doing, hang with one's buddies, annoy one's enemies, and figure out what is and is not currently working. But in systems without regular contests, then seminars are very likely the best substitute.

MarkF
2nd July 2000, 14:54
Oh, yes there is shiai in aikido. Read Tomiki Kenji's book "Judo and Aikido." Shiai is there, but the purpose is not the be-all and end-all there is in judo. That, I am completely in agreement. Shodokan ryu shiai is something to behold, as is kendo shiai. I know some Tomiki stylists begrudge shiai, but Tomiki himself didn't. I have read in the recent past, of judo-like shiai within aikido. It is obviously not popular, but aiki practitioners may look upon karate shiai and international judo shiai as models of how NOT to include shiai. I believe it does have redeeming qualities as well.