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MakotoDojo
28th July 2003, 17:31
That's what I am doing! :)

After cutting down four large trees, and tearing down a two car garage a "shanty" and a storage building, I am about to put in a 30'X25' Dojo with 16' high celings with heating system and airconditioning as well!

has anyone else done something like this? If so you up for sharing some ideas and helping me avoid unforseen pitfalls?

Also any good advice over all will be appreciated.

Regards,

-Rick

shadow42
28th July 2003, 22:05
If I had the funds/building skills/space, I would love to do something like that. Maybe when I make my first million though, hehe.

All I say to you is watch out for zoning regulations in your area. I don't know what your situation is naturally but your neighbors/local government may not like the idea of constructing something like that, depending on the amount of property you have and other factors.

Good luck though!!

MakotoDojo
29th July 2003, 03:28
all is cool in that Department :)

freefoutz
5th August 2003, 22:10
Mr. Ray,

You should consider a hot tub for your students' aching bones and muscles, a tanning bed and complimentary margaritas after class.

Just a thought,

Free Foutz:D

MakotoDojo
5th August 2003, 22:15
Originally posted by freefoutz
Mr. Ray,

You should consider a hot tub for your students' aching bones and muscles, a tanning bed and complimentary margaritas after class.

Just a thought,

Free Foutz:D

Ahh very good idea Free! I'll start testing the margaritas tonight.

Nice first post, now get your asss to class! :)

tenchijin2
6th August 2003, 00:57
Rick,

does your neighbor know you cut down his trees to build something in his backyard?

:)

This is something I will do when I purchase my next piece of property. I've got some idea about how I want it to look.

Dave Pawson
6th August 2003, 10:04
Aric

Unless the guys living next to Rick is blind I think he might have noticed :D :D

Sorry English humour;)

MakotoDojo
6th August 2003, 19:33
Originally posted by tenchijin2
Rick,

does your neighbor know you cut down his trees to build something in his backyard?

:)

This is something I will do when I purchase my next piece of property. I've got some idea about how I want it to look.


Uhmmm...:look:

HinodeBuddha
11th August 2003, 01:02
My friends recently built a new dojo from scratch. Send them an e-mail I am sure they wouldn't mind sharing their ideas.

Contat Mike or Wally Taylor via their website...risingstaraikido.com

MakotoDojo
22nd August 2003, 18:17
Originally posted by HinodeBuddha
My friends recently built a new dojo from scratch. Send them an e-mail I am sure they wouldn't mind sharing their ideas.

Contat Mike or Wally Taylor via their website...risingstaraikido.com

Thanks!

Matt Wolfson
22nd August 2003, 19:33
Hello,
I have done what you are discussing. I have attached a photo of my place if you wish to see it. My room is 26X30 and is constructed from salvaged hand cut barn beams. I have extensive photo library of the project but only have several photos scaned. I am in the begining stages of doing it again this time it is going to be a commercial endevor. I am remodeling an old building that will contain a karate school. If you have questions concerning construction or layout please let me know. I am always interested in seeing what others are doing and would like to see floor plans if availible.
Littlepond

MakotoDojo
23rd August 2003, 01:15
Originally posted by Littlepond
Hello,
I have done what you are discussing. I have attached a photo of my place if you wish to see it. My room is 26X30 and is constructed from salvaged hand cut barn beams. I have extensive photo library of the project but only have several photos scaned. I am in the begining stages of doing it again this time it is going to be a commercial endevor. I am remodeling an old building that will contain a karate school. If you have questions concerning construction or layout please let me know. I am always interested in seeing what others are doing and would like to see floor plans if availible.
Littlepond

Your attachment didn't, uhmm... well.. attach! :)

JakobR
7th October 2003, 19:45
Hello,
I am constructing a dojo as well, but only in theory for an architectural exam. Could anyone tell me how a traditional dojo is constructed and how the shinden, the entrance, facing of sensei side etc corresponds to each other. What should be the ideal size and what proportions should be used? How should the ideal dojo face the cardinal points and is there are religious matters to consider? What is the ideal construction material and should a dojo have windows, etc? I would be most happy for some answers.

Mitch Saret
8th October 2003, 19:59
I was just in the Youngstown area this past weekend and would have made the effort. I didn't even look to see where you were until now.

Bummer!

Matt Wolfson
8th October 2003, 20:40
I am not going anywhere. I will be here next time. Message me and we will make arrangements.

Matt Wolfson
8th October 2003, 20:53
Originally posted by JakobR
Hello,
I am constructing a dojo as well, but only in theory for an architectural exam. Could anyone tell me how a traditional dojo is constructed and how the shinden, the entrance, facing of sensei side etc corresponds to each other. What should be the ideal size and what proportions should be used? How should the ideal dojo face the cardinal points and is there are religious matters to consider? What is the ideal construction material and should a dojo have windows, etc? I would be most happy for some answers.

I think the answers you are seeking are religiously based. both shinto and buhdism have had major influence on japanese martial arts. Zen is the spirit and philosphy so I would say research temple construction.

Baio
17th October 2003, 16:55
www.hidatool.com has many pictures of traditional japanese building construction and links to carpenters of japan sites if you want to study that

SoRelle
5th September 2004, 06:53
don't forget a restroom!

Oniyama
6th September 2004, 06:42
Originally posted by MakotoDojo
That's what I am doing! :)

After cutting down four large trees, and tearing down a two car garage a "shanty" and a storage building, I am about to put in a 30'X25' Dojo with 16' high celings with heating system and airconditioning as well!

has anyone else done something like this? If so you up for sharing some ideas and helping me avoid unforseen pitfalls?

Also any good advice over all will be appreciated.

Regards,

-Rick

You really, really, really should go visit the Grand Tsubaki Shrine in Granite Falls, Washington and talk to Rev. Koichi Barrish about Japanese dojo/shrine construction. He has the coolest training space I have ever seen. Now, please bear in mind that I have not yet been to Japan. However, I think you will be impressed. If you can at all make the trip, I would recommend it.

Here is the link.
http://www.tsubakishrine.com

I hope that helps.

Take care,
John

Matt Wolfson
21st February 2006, 21:05
I was just in the Youngstown area this past weekend and would have made the effort. I didn't even look to see where you were until now.

Bummer!

Here is athe URL to pictures of the schools and progress I have made.

http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~wolfson/karate/karate/index.htm

Also I am having trouble coming up with a name. I will be opening a school and have been trying to come up with a name. A little backround. I study Okinawan Kenpo and kobudo (Sekechi (sp)Odo Sensi was head of the system till he passed away) This will be the main focus of the school but also wanted to open it up to other disaplines, as in renting or leasing space. I was not going to limit it to japanese martial arts either. Hell it doesnt even have to be a martial art (yoga and pilates come to mind) As long as they are serious and committed to there art. So it will be ideally a mix of styles and disaplines. I would like to come up with an name that reflects this broad scope. Any suggestions? Also I would like to hear from other people that run schools and also lease space out to others. How do you work the contracts with the sub-leasers? Is it feasable/recommended to do something like this in the first place. I would love to hear from those that have been down this road.
Matt Wolfson

"There will be people in the world who think that even if you learn martial arts, this will not prove useful when a real need arises. Regarding this concern, the true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things" -Musashi

TEA
22nd February 2006, 15:57
The wooden structure looks really nice. I take it the foundation is pier and beam? I much prefer that type of floor over flooring layed on top of a concrete slab. The problem with concrete slabs is that if you don't use any padding its murder on your joints, but the more padding you use the less stable the footing is. Also, even with a lot of padding on top of concrete, it only gives so much, and most of the give is uneven (i.e. more at first - hence the unstable footing - and less towards the end).

One of my seniors from the first school I studied at built his own dojang by renovating and old warehouse space. He had a really interesting idea for a floor that he said worked really well. He got a bunch of old tires (all the same size) from a tire dump and covered the concrete slab with them. He then built a wooden floor that was free floating on top of the tires. The tires provided enough suport so that the floor remained stable if people were walking on it, but had a bit of give if they were doing jumping techniques or falls. Unlike padding over a concrete slab, the harder the impact, the more the give.

kongoshin
22nd February 2006, 19:59
Many traditional dojos get their names from the place where they are located, either from the town or region, or from the surroundings.

For instance - my teacher's dojo is called Gankutsu ( 巌窟 ) - because it is located inside a cave.

My dojo is located in a place called Falkensten (English: Falcon hill/mountain/rock). I got the name Yogan ( 鷹巌 ) from my teacher. Falcon (taka / yo) and "massive rock, steep, stern" (iwa / gan). As you can see, Yogan and Gankutsu use the same kanji for Gan - something that connects the two dojos. This is something I guess you have to be japanese to fully understand, thus the advice I gave earlier.

My advice is to speak to a japanese (preferably a budo sensei) and seek his advice. There are too many examples of japanese sounding names that sounds strange in the ears of the japanese ;-)




Here is athe URL to pictures of the schools and progress I have made.

http://www.cs.pitt.edu/~wolfson/karate/karate/index.htm

Also I am having trouble coming up with a name. I will be opening a school and have been trying to come up with a name. A little backround. I study Okinawan Kenpo and kobudo (Sekechi (sp)Odo Sensi was head of the system till he passed away) This will be the main focus of the school but also wanted to open it up to other disaplines, as in renting or leasing space. I was not going to limit it to japanese martial arts either. Hell it doesnt even have to be a martial art (yoga and pilates come to mind) As long as they are serious and committed to there art. So it will be ideally a mix of styles and disaplines. I would like to come up with an name that reflects this broad scope. Any suggestions? Also I would like to hear from other people that run schools and also lease space out to others. How do you work the contracts with the sub-leasers? Is it feasable/recommended to do something like this in the first place. I would love to hear from those that have been down this road.
Matt Wolfson

"There will be people in the world who think that even if you learn martial arts, this will not prove useful when a real need arises. Regarding this concern, the true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things" -Musashi

Matt Wolfson
23rd February 2006, 21:11
The wooden structure looks really nice. I take it the foundation is pier and beam? I much prefer that type of floor over flooring layed on top of a concrete slab. The problem with concrete slabs is that if you don't use any padding its murder on your joints, but the more padding you use the less stable the footing is. Also, even with a lot of padding on top of concrete, it only gives so much, and most of the give is uneven (i.e. more at first - hence the unstable footing - and less towards the end).

One of my seniors from the first school I studied at built his own dojang by renovating and old warehouse space. He had a really interesting idea for a floor that he said worked really well. He got a bunch of old tires (all the same size) from a tire dump and covered the concrete slab with them. He then built a wooden floor that was free floating on top of the tires. The tires provided enough suport so that the floor remained stable if people were walking on it, but had a bit of give if they were doing jumping techniques or falls. Unlike padding over a concrete slab, the harder the impact, the more the give.

the first building was designed so that the floor would flex. There is a 23 foot span between the floor joist supports. The floor is firm but has a nice spring to it when taking a fall. The second building (yellow brick) has 16 feet between floor joist supports. the floor is stiffer then the 23 foot span but within the acceptable range and way better then pads over cement. I have heard of the old tire floating floor idea before and think it is the best way to go for the money. I have heard good things about it.
Matt Wolfson

TEA
23rd February 2006, 22:29
I have heard of the old tire floating floor idea before and think it is the best way to go for the money. I have heard good things about it.
Matt Wolfson

Interesting, I thought my senior had made it up. I guess he must have heard about it from someone, then. This was back in the early '80s. I hate concrete floors. Glad to hear that the commecial space has wooden floor with joists. Sounds like you really thought things out well with the private dojo, and it looks really good, too.

kempo-kid
4th March 2006, 23:21
Me and the father in law have just finished building one in his back garden. In the UK the major pitfall was the new regulations for installing electrics. In the old days we could have donme it ourselves now we need a qualified sparky to do it for us, and then get the cert to say it has been done. Luckly one of my nidans is a sparky so all is sorted

Black and Blue
6th March 2006, 12:58
We built our own 32 by 60 ft dojo. Took eight months. Check out
www.delawarebudokan.org


Phil Scudieri

Matt Wolfson
6th March 2006, 13:07
We built our own 32 by 60 ft dojo. Took eight months. Check out
www.delawarebudokan.org


Phil Scudieri


Very nice. I like the look. I was curious as to the flooring. Is that plywood that has been varnished? Also I see you offer multiple styles, how is that done? you lease space to others?
Matt Wolfson

"There will be people in the world who think that even if you learn martial arts, this will not prove useful when a real need arises. Regarding this concern, the true science of martial arts means practicing them in such a way that they will be useful at any time, and teach them in such a way that they will be useful in all things" -Musashi

Black and Blue
6th March 2006, 16:54
The floor is plywood.Sanded, then covered with a heavy gym floor coating. It is holding up well after 10 years.As you are mostly a karate dojo I think,you will not have to worry about tall ceilings. This helps cut building expense. I teach karate and ken, aiki is included with ken training.We have a kyudo instructor in Wash Dc(Miyako Dojo of which I am member,) but I run the classes in DE. I also have trained under Shibata XX for 9 years.I teach tai chi also. I have considered renting to a yoga class to help cut costs.As certain programs like pilaties,yoga are trendy, I dont know if I would put them in a contract. Maybe the first 3 months in advance, if it goes well, see other options. Some dojo bring in different arts like kung fu, tai chi. Tae Kwon Do,Grappling arts etc to also help with costs.You would have to feel these people out to make sure they will take care of the dojo and respect its users and owner.Here, at this point see how they feel about a contract and if they are committed. Will you have insurance? Release forms must be signed before anyone sets foot on the mat. Although they really dont hold up in court they do discourge people and at least gives you something in writing. Lawsuits are no fun.
Good luck!
Phil Scudieri

Maro
6th March 2006, 22:19
Nice dojo!

Robert Wolfe
7th March 2006, 17:40
Phil,

You picked a good thread to get involved with -- thanks for lending your experience.

-- Bob

P.S. -- Phil's dojo is an excellent example of what can be accomplished even with a relatively small (but dedicated) crew, and limited resources.

Black and Blue
7th March 2006, 19:07
Hi Bob,
My Pleasure

Phil Scudieri

Matt Wolfson
8th March 2006, 19:16
The floor is plywood.Sanded, then covered with a heavy gym floor coating. It is holding up well after 10 years.As you are mostly a karate dojo I think,you will not have to worry about tall ceilings. This helps cut building expense. I teach karate and ken, aiki is included with ken training.We have a kyudo instructor in Wash Dc(Miyako Dojo of which I am member,) but I run the classes in DE. I also have trained under Shibata XX for 9 years.I teach tai chi also. I have considered renting to a yoga class to help cut costs.As certain programs like pilaties,yoga are trendy, I dont know if I would put them in a contract. Maybe the first 3 months in advance, if it goes well, see other options. Some dojo bring in different arts like kung fu, tai chi. Tae Kwon Do,Grappling arts etc to also help with costs.You would have to feel these people out to make sure they will take care of the dojo and respect its users and owner.Here, at this point see how they feel about a contract and if they are committed. Will you have insurance? Release forms must be signed before anyone sets foot on the mat. Although they really dont hold up in court they do discourge people and at least gives you something in writing. Lawsuits are no fun.
Good luck!
Phil Scudieri

Thank you for the information. I was curious if your insurance covers the people that lease mat time from you, or do you require them to carry there own? I am having a problem coming up with a name for the school. Any suggestions?

www.cs.pitt.edu/~wolfson/karate/karate/index.htm

Matt Wolfson

Black and Blue
9th March 2006, 14:41
I have a good plan that covers everyone in the dojo and driving to it. It also covers social events and all classes at a very reasonable price. For 50 students or so its like 500$ a year and you will sleep well at night.I can root around for their name if you like.Be sure the tennent is following all safe regulations and their methods and are safe. They will reflect on your dojo and pocketbook if you are sued.I think the private dojo in the pics is where you train now? Nice dojo except like me, they made one mistake. The windows should be higher. When we do aiki we have to be sure no one goes through a window into the fishpond. <g> As far as a name if you are having 2 or more arts you can use something budokan like we did. Some one mentioned your location, thats good to. Like Delaware Budokan. The name has to reflect whats in YOUR heart. This is an important step imho. This reflects on who YOU are,your message as a martial artist and what you want to give back.Our basic mission statement is to "leave this place a little better than we found it" I also suggest keep the dojo in a traditional style. This offers an alternitive to the over saturation of McDojos with music, trophys, posters etc. People are "blown away" when they see our place. We are out in the middle of nowhere, but people find us and many drive a long way for the experience.
Please ask away if you need any more info. I am delighted to be of assistance.Oh yea...we have a yoga teacher starting next week.
Phil Scudieri

Matt Wolfson
9th March 2006, 19:20
"have a good plan that covers everyone in the dojo and driving to it. It also covers social events and all classes at a very reasonable price. For 50 students or so its like 500$ a year and you will sleep well at night. I can root around for their name if you like."

I would like that. the quotes I have gotten are nearly double that....

"I think the private dojo in the pics is where you train now? Nice dojo except like me, they made one mistake. The windows should be higher."

Thanks for the compliement, yes it is where I train now. The windows is something I had to compromise on. it was either place the windows there or not have the covered porch. In the end I choose the porch. Reason being, someday I hope to move in there and make it my house. I will take down the bags and such and build a kitchen area and leave the rest an open studio-style floor plan.

"The name has to reflect whats in YOUR heart. This is an important step imho. This reflects on who YOU are,your message as a martial artist and what you want to give back."

You are right on about the name being very important. I agree completely. I have been working on the second school for nearly 2 years (part time) now and have been trying to come up with the name since then. I am nearly done, and should be open for business with 2 months. I am fast running out of time and need to come up with something. I do want a name that can and will encompass many arts. not only the different styles of martial arts, but disaplines like yoga. etc

"We are out in the middle of nowhere, but people find us and many drive a long way for the experience."

I am hoping for a similar effect. The second school is located in a "distressed" area. (It is the only place I could afford to buy a building and do the remodeling) I am not sure if people will make the trip there to train. I hope that the quaility of the instruction and the nice facilities will encourage people to put in the effort and make the trip. Thank you for your time and input, I find it very helpful.
Matt Wolfson

Black and Blue
10th March 2006, 20:13
Hey Mat,
Go to www.ajfusa.com This is the Alan J Flood Co. Click on <amature sports and activities>They charge 665$ for 50 stdents. They have all the info you need plus an application.It covers med exp, travel, events and I think a million coverage for you. It was a good plan I thought.Its what I used for the last 10 years. Used to be cheaper. I hope you are correct that people will come. It worked for us. Good luck and post some pics!
Phil Scudieri

Matt Wolfson
8th November 2006, 21:27
Things have taken longer than expected. I am nearly done though. Flooring is going in now. www.cs.pitt.edu/~wolfson/karate/karate/index.htm
matt wolfson