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jezah81
7th August 2003, 04:22
I am curious to know if the death penalty exists in Japan for crimes such as murder, rape etc.......? If not, what would the sentencing be for such crimes?
regards,
Jeremy Hagop

John Lindsey
7th August 2003, 04:40
Yes, they have it but they don't kill many people each year. I think there are 15 or so crimes that can get you a date with the hangman.

The Japanese don't mess around when it comes time to do the executions. I don't think they tell the person in advance, except when the day comes. The family rarely knows in advance too. I might take more than 5 years on death row before you swing, so each day the convict wakes up and wonders if today is the day. Some say this is a bad thing...

Joel Simmons
8th August 2003, 04:12
Aloha,

Yes, I've heard that it is quite a swift process in some instances. A co-worker of mine that is a law student at Univ. of Hawaii was doing a comparative study between American and Japanese penal systems and their use of the death penalty.

Her conclusion was that Japan utilized the death penalty far less in relation to the amount of crime committed, yet it had the effect that Americans wished it had. She figured this was due to the efficiency of their penal system, whereas in the U.S. you can appeal your case almost indefinitely. So Japan puts the death penalty to use and extracts the desired social controls from such a punishment, yet the risk exists that an innocent person could die due to the "no B.S." nature of the system. We all know how it works here in the U.S.

As an aside, I recall having read an article about the differences in lifestyle between American and Japanese prisons. In Japan, the prisoners were hardly allowed to speak to one another, they were marched around in single file lines to particular work sites and made to work all day. If anyone opened their mouth or acted out, they were "pursuaded" back into line. This would obviously send the ACLU into a frenzy if it occurred here in the U.S. But, the biggest indicator of difference, in my opinion, was the amount of rape and attempted rape reported in each penal system. In the U.S. thousands of rapes and assaults are reported. In Japan, the article claimed that in twenty years there had only been 4 or 5 cases reported. Wow. They're doing something right over there.

Mekugi
8th August 2003, 07:08
It's only bad if you are the family of the person waiting for the execution. They shouldn't have to be put through that, it's hard enough knowing that the person in your family was horrible enough to get the axe.

Otherwise...bad thing for the prisoner...hmmm...??? I suppose that is true punishment worse than death.

-R


Originally posted by John Lindsey
Yes, they have it but they don't kill many people each year. I think there are 15 or so crimes that can get you a date with the hangman.

The Japanese don't mess around when it comes time to do the executions. I don't think they tell the person in advance, except when the day comes. The family rarely knows in advance too. I might take more than 5 years on death row before you swing, so each day the convict wakes up and wonders if today is the day. Some say this is a bad thing...

Mekugi
8th August 2003, 07:12
IMHO the Japanese police and the way they behave towards "convicted" men is a double edged sword. One side says "yeah, if they are guilty, let them serve their punishment." The other side says "Hmm...80% confession rate?? That seems like they beat confessions out of people, guilty or not". Hard to make a proper opinion with those two things looming.

-Russ



Originally posted by hawaiianvw67
Aloha,

Yes, I've heard that it is quite a swift process in some instances. A co-worker of mine that is a law student at Univ. of Hawaii was doing a comparative study between American and Japanese penal systems and their use of the death penalty.

Her conclusion was that Japan utilized the death penalty far less in relation to the amount of crime committed, yet it had the effect that Americans wished it had. She figured this was due to the efficiency of their penal system, whereas in the U.S. you can appeal your case almost indefinitely. So Japan puts the death penalty to use and extracts the desired social controls from such a punishment, yet the risk exists that an innocent person could die due to the "no B.S." nature of the system. We all know how it works here in the U.S.

As an aside, I recall having read an article about the differences in lifestyle between American and Japanese prisons. In Japan, the prisoners were hardly allowed to speak to one another, they were marched around in single file lines to particular work sites and made to work all day. If anyone opened their mouth or acted out, they were "pursuaded" back into line. This would obviously send the ACLU into a frenzy if it occurred here in the U.S. But, the biggest indicator of difference, in my opinion, was the amount of rape and attempted rape reported in each penal system. In the U.S. thousands of rapes and assaults are reported. In Japan, the article claimed that in twenty years there had only been 4 or 5 cases reported. Wow. They're doing something right over there.

aikilouis
8th August 2003, 12:36
It must have something to do with the feeling of shame in Japan.
Shame of reporting a rape.
Shame of complaining for the families of convicts.
Shame to stand out in general.
I don't want to appear critical, but when was the last time an American was ashamed of something ?

Joel Simmons
9th August 2003, 01:41
Aloha,

Not all Americans are the super-egotistical, my-way-or-the-highway, swaggering, tasteless, crass gloats as many Europeans classify them (although there are many that fit the bill). I have a feeling that many Americans would feel shame and embarrassment if put in the situation of having to report a sexual assault, no matter the circumstances.

Perhaps the emphasis on shame is greater in Japan, but in terms of crime occuring within a penal system...perhaps the Japanese are just more effective at keeping prisoners apart from one another. Who knows what that means for the treatment of the prisoners, but I suppose that is just showing the differences between the way two societies interpret proper social punishment. Interesting.

Mekugi
9th August 2003, 02:10
I am not sure how to take this....I think there is a great deal of personal shame that is not associated with National identity but with a society, which can be seperated entirely.

Myself, I like to get past my "shame" and get on with my life. Does that make me an "ugly American"?

-Russ



Originally posted by aikilouis
It must have something to do with the feeling of shame in Japan.
Shame of reporting a rape.
Shame of complaining for the families of convicts.
Shame to stand out in general.
I don't want to appear critical, but when was the last time an American was ashamed of something ?

Walker
10th August 2003, 07:51
Originally posted by Mekugi
Does that make me an "ugly American"?
-Russ Russ, sorry to say that has nothing to do with your behaviour...
Old friends insulting you across the waters!:p

Mekugi
10th August 2003, 12:08
heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy......

(Doug Walker alert)

You darned frisky Portlandites slipping in a cheap shot every chance you get!! ;)

BTW...believe it or not, downtown Nagoya has a Boyd's coffee shop. That's right, Portland Boyd's. Amazing in a town filled with Starbucks you get a little bit of home. They even have a "Rip City" blend in there, talk about P-Town.

I talked to Big Tim L. the other day...I will be in Town on or about the 23rd of this Month....I am thinking beer- Lucky Lab for old times sake.....?

Hopefully all will work out. Drop me an email

mekugi@pacifier.com

-Rawsty

Originally posted by Walker
Russ, sorry to say that has nothing to do with your behaviour...
Old friends insulting you across the waters!:p

Kimpatsu
10th August 2003, 16:23
Originally posted by John Lindsey
Yes, they have it but they don't kill many people each year. I think there are 15 or so crimes that can get you a date with the hangman.

The Japanese don't mess around when it comes time to do the executions. I don't think they tell the person in advance, except when the day comes. The family rarely knows in advance too. I might take more than 5 years on death row before you swing, so each day the convict wakes up and wonders if today is the day. Some say this is a bad thing...
This is a bad thing. It is 100% inhumane. Especially if you count the number of miscarriages of justice in Japan...

JakobR
10th August 2003, 18:32
Originally posted by hawaiianvw67
In the U.S. thousands of rapes and assaults are reported. In Japan, the article claimed that in twenty years there had only been 4 or 5 cases reported. Wow. They're doing something right over there.
I have read somewhere that most crimes are rare in Japan compared to other contries except from rape. My guess is that the hidden statistics concerning rape are even higher compared with the US and Europe given the japanese shame-culture. It would be interesting if someone had more information regarding this.

Jock Armstrong
14th August 2003, 08:35
Tony is right. The cops in Japan are amazingly corrupt, lazy and overbearing. They have an 80% conviction rate because the judges [three , no jury here] simply accept whatever the cops say. Most people do not turn themselves in- they are caught like any other country. Most of the stuff we believe about Japan"s crime is just propoganda- I use that word because government departments and big companies, including the banks routinely lie about their activities and financial status. Japan has its own crime problems which reflect their own culture. Gun deaths are few, but then only the Yakuza have them [and are not shy about using them]. We, and for that matter, the vast majority of japanese people are kept unaware because Yakuza crime related numbers are kept seperate from general crime figures and not released to the general public. Public brawling in bars is rare but molestation and rape is big. Murder for monetary gain is just like any other country. I like Japanese people- I have found that they are generally helpful and friendly. A small minority are racists of the ocean going class- hey!! Sound familiar?? People are good- the system sucks.

PS The Australian government, despite the findings of US and Australian studies which show that legally owned firearms and MA weapons are not used in the commission of crimes is forging ahead, banning all pistols over the calibre of .38 [9mm] and requiring prohibitive paperwork, proof of competition shooting and making it as difficult as possible for people to keep or store their firearms. Also, MA weapons will have to be registered. All this as home invasion crimes are the fastest growing criminal industry in Australia. Queensland [which for years never had this kind of crime] had the highest gun ownership level in Aust [5 for every person] has never had the problems of crime ridden Sydney or Melbourne. We're just getting them now...............

Go figure......

Mekugi
15th August 2003, 10:44
BTW...Hear about the four skeletonized bodies found in a car at the bottom of a body of water......hmmmm....

-R

Joel Simmons
20th August 2003, 12:48
Aloha Russ,

You originally from Portland, OR? I am!!!

I've been displaced from rainy, foggy, cozy Portland to this place that is always sunny, warm and beautiful :mad: . I guess Hawaii isnt' THAT bad. But, I would like to make it back home someday.

I'm always talking about the beer in Portland to all the locals here. They all think Heineken and Steinlager are exotic beers and microbrewed. That just kills me. I've tried my darndest to get things like Full Sail, Saxer and Bridgeport shipped down here...never works.

Oh well. Pray for liquid sunshine.

nozomu
28th August 2003, 06:40
In Japan, the article claimed that in twenty years there had only been 4 or 5 cases reported. Wow. They're doing something right over there. Yeah I'd really have to pound on this point too. There is a major disconnect in Japan about the actual number of incidents occuring and those that are actually being reported. For instance, most people are aware of the molestation that goes on in crowded trains, and worse being in such a position where you physically can not move to react or stop such a thing other than screaming. This also says nothing about the number of stalkings or unwarranted advances that are common in Japan as well. In my opinion, (although I think it's fairly well grounded), I'd agree that personal shame and family shame has a lot to do with these crimes going unreported. I also think that this is reenforced by the difficulity of getting the police to make a formal report of such incidents and to make thorough investigations into such incidents. To my understanding, it's not unheard of for offenders to even try to make private peace settlements with victims in the interest of avoiding public awareness or scrutiny.

All of this is not to say that things are not changing in Japan though; there are cases of Japanese women who are really going all out to put a stop to such activities by doing such things putting the shame of being a victim aside, and bringing these matters into public light. And this takes form through various means, but most directly I think, by really making sure the police actively follow up on report filings and pursue suspected parties.

Back to capital punishment though, I've heard of other countries that follow simliar proceedings; and even charge the family of the deceased the cost of the bullet. Now that's shame.

Mekugi
29th August 2003, 04:10
Originally posted by nozomu
Back to capital punishment though, I've heard of other countries that follow simliar proceedings; and even charge the family of the deceased the cost of the bullet. Now that's shame.

That's China....

-R

Kimpatsu
29th August 2003, 04:12
News just in today: Japan has sentenced to death a schizophrenic for killing eight children in a schoolyard.

Mekugi
29th August 2003, 04:33
The guy from Osaka?


Originally posted by Kimpatsu
News just in today: Japan has sentenced to death a schizophrenic for killing eight children in a schoolyard.

Kimpatsu
29th August 2003, 04:40
Originally posted by Mekugi
The guy from Osaka?
That's the one. You can read about it, (http://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0,7369,1031275,00.html) if you like.

Mekugi
29th August 2003, 06:06
<shiver> I am mixed in my feelings, but my parent side tells me to have this guy whacked. Yeah he probably is crazy, but it's statements like this that make me want to puke:

"Takuma showed little remorse, reportedly telling the court in June that he could have killed more children if he had attacked a kindergarten. He also said he was not afraid of death."


This is a little disturbing as well:

"The attack led to calls for greater security at schools in Japan, because Takuma had been able to enter the school without being challenged."

What do they mean "greater security"? Does that mean they will start having to pay attention to the kids or who is stabbing them? If I remember correctly, while Takuma was killing these children, the teachers ran to call the police. I don't think security is to blame myself, perhaps they need a nice dose of common sense.

Before this happened, I went to pick up my kid at the Japanese version of "kindergarten" and they were all over me like flies on garbage. However, I am a dangerous "foreigner". Feh.

I can only fathom...
-R

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
That's the one. You can read about it, (http://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0,7369,1031275,00.html) if you like.

nozomu
29th August 2003, 06:10
I recall hearing about this incident last time I was in Japan. I'd have to say that I'm of the same mind. The use of knives or other similiar weapons in these crimes is what really gets to me. I mean, why kids?

Kimpatsu
29th August 2003, 06:18
Originally posted by nozomu
I recall hearing about this incident last time I was in Japan. I'd have to say that I'm of the same mind. The use of knives or other similiar weapons in these crimes is what really gets to me. I mean, why kids?
Because he's mad, Ben, and thus not accountable for his actions.

Mekugi
29th August 2003, 06:26
That is a question that haunts me whenever I see this kind of thing : "why kids". I, deep down, know why....it's because they are defenseless and easy targets. At the same time this contributes to my already deep paranoia and perhaps someone who is more qualified with a Schizoid could explain better, however I am fairly certain this is mixed in with the murderer's intention.

Puke.

-R


Originally posted by nozomu
I recall hearing about this incident last time I was in Japan. I'd have to say that I'm of the same mind. The use of knives or other similiar weapons in these crimes is what really gets to me. I mean, why kids?

nozomu
29th August 2003, 06:35
Un, I can understand what you're saying. I don't know, on these ocassions though, my mind tends to pull to think that the more brutal of capital punishment methods would be appropriate. And at the same time, reason is lingering there too, saying that the guy is sick in the head. But even that, at least for me, does not excuse what he did or what he says in reflection of such events. I think the judge was totally right to haul him away with no final words. He deserves none.

KumaKage
11th October 2003, 00:24
Here's an article from Amnesty International about the death penalty in Japan. It is rather disturbing.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGASA220032000

KumaKage
11th October 2003, 00:29
BTW has anyone read Camus' The Stranger? Overall, an excellent book with some strong reflections on social attitudes to the individual and the death penalty.