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Bushi Jon
7th August 2003, 17:24
I have two older sons all that I expect of them a week is to take out the trash pick up the yard and do well in school. My wife called me today complaining that I did not take out the trash. My answer to her was the only thing I expect the older two to do is take out the trash consistantly,she hung up.What did I do wrong?

Jay Bell
7th August 2003, 17:28
You didn't agree with why she was upset :D

Jack B
7th August 2003, 18:00
Does your wife know the boys are responsible for taking out the trash? Are they her boys? I am wondering why she said YOU didn't take out the trash. There may be more going on than the trash.

Phil, I think I'd buy that book. "Men are kukris, women are stilettos"

JimmyCrow
7th August 2003, 18:10
Originally posted by BUSHI JON
...What did I do wrong?

You got married.:rolleyes:

Shitoryu Dude
7th August 2003, 18:20
My response would be:

"When did you get so helpless that you are incapable of taking out the trash when it needs to be done?"

As far as I am concerned I do not "take orders" around the house, nor do I put up with petty crap. If she wants someone else to take out the trash (me, as there is only the two of us) then she can ask me if I will do it. Taking out the trash is not on my list of things that only men can do as anyone over the age of 8 can perform this chore.

:beer:

JimmyCrow
7th August 2003, 18:35
Harvey,
I'm guessing your wife doesn't read your post here on e-Budo.

Shitoryu Dude
7th August 2003, 18:44
Lets say we've had a few disagreements over taking out the trash. :D Which, considering that I didn't take it out and she did, and all she did was get snippy for a bit, appears that I won. Result: if she wants a chore done around the house she asks - and I may say no.

Like I said, I don't take orders around the house.

:beer:

Bushi Jon
7th August 2003, 19:13
Great responses guys

stoker
7th August 2003, 20:08
Had a co-worker who replied to the same request with "Well, you cooked it -- you take it out!" :D

Yea, the divorce court didn't find it funny either. :p

Mitch Saret
7th August 2003, 20:20
Looks like we need to start calling you Dr. Phil. Just don't let Don Cunningham know, you know how he is concerning titles!

BTW, Hi, Don...luv ya bro!:D

Paul Kerr
7th August 2003, 20:42
On a slightly more serious note guys, I'd really recommend a read of any of Deborah Tannen's books - especially "You Just Don't Understand", "That's Not What I Meant" and "Talking From 9 to 5".

She was (is) a professor of linguistics at Georgetown University and writes very insightfully on gender differences in human communication.

I was cringing with recognition when I first read her :)

And, before anyone asks if she's like John Gray - NO!! He should be nailed to a friggin' pole for the pop-psych Oprah-like twaddle he writes (God, I needed to get that off my chest :D )

Shitoryu Dude
7th August 2003, 21:07
Mr. "Men are from Mars, women are from Venus"? Cripes, was that a load of sludge! Grey is a complete waste of time and a sell-out.

Do Tannen's books address issues from both sides, or just stick to the common perception that it is all the fault of men?

:beer:

Paul Kerr
7th August 2003, 21:14
Harvey - Tannen's books are a great read. She takes a balanced look at common communication issues/probelms and backs it all up with solid research.

If you only check out one, check out "You Just Don't Understand". Comparing her to John Gray (spit, spit) is like comparing Ashida Kim to Jigoro Kano.

Give her a read - I think you'd enjoy it.

Martyn van Halm
7th August 2003, 21:15
Originally posted by Paul Kerr
John Gray ...He should be nailed to a friggin' pole for the pop-psych Oprah-like twaddle he writes (God, I needed to get that off my chest :D )
Who would buy a book on relationships from a guy who went celibate voluntarily?
Hey Paul, can I borrow those Deborah Tannen books?:D

gmarquay
7th August 2003, 21:46
After reading Sharp Phil's response, I think he needs to change his name to "Dr. Phil".

- Glenn

kirigirisu
7th August 2003, 22:56
Nice answer, Phil, although I do agree with Harvey that certain precedents and parameters need to be established (on the part of both parties, long before this sort of crap starts bubbling up) before the domestic partner's "needs" ride roughshod over the works and you become an emasculated Afleck to their J-Lo.

Shitoryu Dude
7th August 2003, 23:18
OK - who is more emasculated: Mr. Barbara Streisand or Ben Affleck?

Paul Kerr
7th August 2003, 23:55
OK - who is more emasculated: Mr. Barbara Streisand or Ben Affleck?

Er, Dr. Phil? :)

Soulend
8th August 2003, 00:21
As someone else said, is she aware of who is assigned the taking out of trash duties? Everyone in my household knows their responsibilities, and what day (if it is an alternating thing) they are supposed to do it. If it doesn't get done, then you know who is responsible. My spouse assigns duties as she sees fit to the kids.
I am sort of an optional helper and 'enforcer', my prime directive being to bring home the bacon, protect the family, and fix whatever sh*t they manage to break.

If my wife ever hung up on me...well, it would be a rather interesting conversation when I got home. She could also pack her bags in the interim and gas up for the trip to go live at her mother's. That's very disrespectful, and I certainly would not do that to her.

A. M. Jauregui
8th August 2003, 02:11
Great first post Phil. (Just had to give it praise.)

Shitoryu Dude
8th August 2003, 04:08
I cut through the crap by finding a woman who expresses herself without the hyperbole. I told her before we even met that I couldn't stand a woman who whined, expected telepathy, or did any of the other stereotypical BS female "communication" tactics that didn't work. If she had something to say - say it.

Expecting me to get the hint will never work, as happened last Sunday. She swore that they told me we were all going out to lunch. What they actually did was discuss it in a room 30 feet away amongst themselves while I read a book. By female logic that constituted actually telling me what was being planned and getting an affirmative response. Needless to say I was quite pissed off as I learned about the lunch while I was eating a very large, rather late breakfast (they all watched me make it and didn't bother to question why I was cooking a meal designed to last me through dinner). Seems they also forgot to tell me that I was giving a ride to her brother and his mean f***ing dog that sheds all over. It also put us two hours late on our schedule, at which point she got grumpy because the other lines at the ferry were moving faster.

And when she does something that I normally do I tell her "Thanks honey!"

:beer:

Kobe
8th August 2003, 04:41
Nice to see that the fierce and brave Harvey becomes a sweet teddy bear, I was doubting if he has any kind of feelings. Glad to know.

kirigirisu
8th August 2003, 06:56
"Telepathy" and "hints" are definitely out.

Yes, letting someone know up front that you're:

1. NOT Charles Xavier

2. You're not very empathic short of having some vague idea that if you whack someone upside the head with a shinai, it's probably going to be unpleasant, and you can feel another man's pain when he gets nailed in the goodies with a blunt object.

3. Your internal Womanspeak-to-English dictionary is probably slightly rustier than your second-year high school Spanish

might help a bit with the brighter ones. They'll decide whether or not you're worth the trouble and move on to the next one if you're not.

At the same time, you've got to realize you're dealing with a generation or three of "catertaker" and "enabler" types raised on the popular notion that men (and all people, for that matter) are fixer-uppers that will "change" for them because of the person's intrinsic and over-inflated sense of self-importance.

Remember:

Subtle hints don't work. Strong hints don't work. Hints don't work period.

People don't change. Sure, they might for a little bit if you pester and cajole and nag and whine for a while but eventually they'll revert back to type out of spite, with a newfound sense of resentment.

larsen_huw
8th August 2003, 12:03
Phil,

I think Ana means your first post in this thread.

Bushi Jon
8th August 2003, 12:58
Went home geared down so as not to start afight Wife walked up to me and said she was out of line and it was the kids fault. I am now recovering in the hospital from the stroke that I had

StanLee
8th August 2003, 13:25
Doc Phil,

Can I in the future, ask you questions if I have female probs?:D

adroitjimon
10th August 2003, 18:18
Karma rocks even still...:cool:

Cady Goldfield
10th August 2003, 20:45
Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
My response would be:

"When did you get so helpless that you are incapable of taking out the trash when it needs to be done?"

That's why Phil can write a relationship book, and you can't. :laugh:
Did you read his post? He nailed it. It's not a matter of helpless, it's that when certain tasks are assigned to particular family members (or responsibility for overseeing/supervising them) and don't get done, it upsets the orderly applecart.

If it were the wife's task to make breakfast (or that she was responsible for supervising the daughter to do it), and hubby came down to an empty, cold kitchen, he would be within rights to borch about it too.

The only red flag in Jon's case was that his wife called him on the phone to complain. She should have just sat down with him at home and matter-of-factly stated the situation and asked what Jon proposed to do to rectify it.

Shitoryu Dude
11th August 2003, 04:14
But in my case, none of those tasks have been detailed. She just assumed that because I was a guy I would take out the trash. I see no reason to play errand boy just because of my status of being large and male. She took out the trash previously when it needed to be done, she could continue to do so now.

It is not appropriate for one individual to "assign" duties and tasks to another without consulting them on it.

As such, she takes out the trash when it needs to be done and she is the one closest to it.

:beer:

Cady Goldfield
11th August 2003, 14:59
Ah, well that's your own particular relationship. In a lot of traditional households, chores are assigned by gender:

Men
Take out trash
Mow lawn
Remove bat/spider/mouse from bathtub
Respond to strange noises in the night/intruders
Repairs (simple plumbing, painting, caulking, etc.)
Automobile maintenance (oil changes, tuneups, snow tires, etc.)
Heavy lifting

Women
Cook or prepare main meals
Childcare and its related tasks
Laundry
Housekeeping and cleaning
Food shopping
Entertainment/social calendar planning and prep (family occasions, entertaining husband's business colleagues and card night buds, etc.)
Care for elderly or disable parents/relatives

That's the old traditional division. Of course, there are lots of variations now. In pragmatic households, it comes down to who is the one best suited (in time, location, ability and temperament) for the job. I wouldn't expect a woman 9 months pregnant to have to schlep heavy trash cans. Nor would I expect a man to have to pick up his drycleaning if he's going to be in meetings all day at his office, 25 miles away, while his wife is working around the corner from the drycleaner.

Shitoryu Dude
11th August 2003, 17:18
Hmmm, since women refuse to cook or clean any more I don't see that applies.

Parents are shuttled off into a rest home so they don't stink up the house

Who entertains business associates anymore?

Kids are in daycare and ignored until they turn 30.

Mice, spiders, bats? What hovel are you living in?

Shopping? Yep, women still shop - for shoes.

Entertainment? If you consider a group of hens over clucking about the latest Oprah book to be "entertaining", then that happens.

Since women in general don't do any of the items on their list, it seems wrong for them to expect men to do any of their items, except for themselves.

:beer:

Cady Goldfield
11th August 2003, 17:56
What can I say, Harv? You live in an alternate universe.:p

Shitoryu Dude
11th August 2003, 18:03
Well, I still take care of possible intruders. I know that she can't be relied on to kill them promptly, so it's up to me to shoot them.

:beer: