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Jason Chambers
9th August 2003, 18:15
I am curious to know just how much respect is given to those who are back and forth between the Kans...

Is one allowed to switch back and forth on a regular basis?

icynorth
9th August 2003, 18:46
As far as the Kan goes. I have only ever been a member of the Bujinkan. However, I would take an opportunity to train with any of the Kans or Indepenedents I could. I have received grief for it. Not too concerned about that though.

John Lindsey
9th August 2003, 20:32
Is one allowed to switch back and forth on a regular basis?

I think you can always go back to the Bujinkan, but your peers will not like it and might not trust you once you have been over to the dark side.

If someone is making a career of bouncing around, then nobody will like it, regardless of the kan.

Leaving once and coming back is possible and most people will not hold it against you. Depends on if you are a blackbelt or kyu level too, since you need to have a teacher...

Moko
11th August 2003, 06:01
Not sure if I or John LIndsay can speak for the Bujinkan however I can certainly give you my opinions.

People can say anything they want. The Internet is a magnafier for e-
crap. It is their actions however that will tell you who and what they are. People who jump from teacher to teacher, (beacuse that is what it really is, not kan to kan) are fundamentally disloyal.

Now there is nothing wrong with being a disloyal bastard. I just have no time for people of that ilk. Its' a character flaw on my part. I suppose some people have a higher value for someone who can make a lot of money or has an outstanding knowledge of hair care products or massive penile girth. Whatever. For me though I value loyalty. Like I said my character flaw.

My advice is watch these people, gather information and form your own assesment/opinion.

icynorth
11th August 2003, 16:47
Your point about it being teacher vs teacher is a good one. That really is the issue for alot. However, I don't know if your motives are logical if you are being disloyal. But in the end if your ideals are coming from a teacher you don't gel well with it will reflect on the group as a whole.

John Lindsey
11th August 2003, 21:39
People who jump from teacher to teacher, (beacuse that is what it really is, not kan to kan) are fundamentally disloyal.

I don't feel the act of leaving a teacher per se is disloyal. For instance, Hatsumi S. left many gendai budo teachers, and then left Ueno for Takamatsu. I would not call him disloyal. If you are searching for the right teacher for you, then I don't see the problem. If, you just want to steal techniques from one teacher with the intention of going back to another teacher, then you might be being disloyal to both. Some people I feel are confused at what they want, and bounce around till they find what they are looking for.

Miuki
12th August 2003, 03:08
I guess it's always a good idea not to burn your bridges when moving around... especially when dealing with skilled martial artists (infinitely more skilled and connected than yourself). I've always tried to be as polite as possible.

Disclaimer: I'm stubbornly loyal, often I feel to my own detriment. At the same time, I like to think that I'm no ones bum-boy.

My two shackles.

macfion
13th August 2003, 07:31
Basically the way I see it is this, leave if you want. But, if you leave, you leave it all behind you. For example, if say a yondan leaves one kan to join another, he leaves/resigns his yondan too. Should he then in a fit of pique, decidede he wants to go back, well then he starts at the begining again, not as a yondan. Remember that grades in our schools are not a reward for something you have done, but are an ideal to strive for. Its not a game we are training for.
Pol.

Miuki
13th August 2003, 23:50
I confess to having moved around and started over a little, but only due to circumstances beyond my control.

That said, in a period where society has fragmented and the rule of law fractured I would hope to be able to count on as many 'friends' as possible.