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Pavel Dolgachov
12th August 2003, 16:57
I have an question. Tora-guchi ("tiger mouth"; tora-no guchi = mawashi-uke+ryote-shotei-oshi) is one of techniques in Okinawan Goju-ryu. I also know that there are tora-guchi in Ryuei-ryu. In Uechi-ryu exist wa-uke - round block+double strike very similar to tora-guchi. Even in Shorin-ryu exist tora-guchi - in Seibukan and Matsubayshi-ryu kata ChatanYara-no Kushanku.

Is it possible that tora-guchi was transcended from Nahate to Shorin-ryu? Probably Chatan Yara by himself or Kyan Chotoku introduced tora-guchi to Shorin-ryu kata Kusanku?

Paihequan
28th August 2003, 02:11
Pavel,

I cannot state that the techniques came from Naha-Te and was transferred to onwards to the other traditions although I think that in the martial arts all things are possible.

Mawashi Uke (Or Reverse Moon & Sun as we refer to it) is seen commonly in Crane-Fist so perhaps this may provide a link. This is a extremely practical attack to GB14 (Yangbai - Yang White) and BL 40 (Weizhong - Commanding Middle), BL41 (Fufen - Appended Part), and or BL 5 (Yixi - Surprise) and will result in a knockout when applied correctly as it should be (Not as a block!).

Hope this helps a little.

Pavel Dolgachov
29th August 2003, 13:32
all things are possible. :) Yes, but I try to look to particular things.

Mawashi Uke (Or Reverse Moon & Sun as we refer to it) is seen commonly in Crane-Fist so perhaps this may provide a link.
There are many discussions about relationship between okinawan karate (Nahate especcially) and Crane gungfu. But I think different Nahate styles (Goju-ryu, Uechi-ryu, Ryuei-ryu) were under big influences of FEW chineese styles.

Interestingly TKD and Tang Soo Do also utilize this strike.
Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo were influenced by karate. For example, tora-no-guchi NOW exist in Shito-ryu (Higaonna Kanryo & Miyagi Chojun -> Mabuni Kenwa), Shotokan (Mabuni Kenwa -> Funakoshi's top students), Kyokushinkai (Miyagi - > Yamaguchi Gogen - > Oyama Masutatsu) etc.

Jussi Häkkinen
18th October 2003, 03:24
Originally posted by Paihequan
Mawashi Uke (Or Reverse Moon & Sun as we refer to it) is seen commonly in Crane-Fist so perhaps this may provide a link. This is a extremely practical attack to GB14 (Yangbai - Yang White) and BL 40 (Weizhong - Commanding Middle), BL41 (Fufen - Appended Part), and or BL 5 (Yixi - Surprise) and will result in a knockout when applied correctly as it should be (Not as a block!).


Interesting. Does this application sound more practical for you than perhaps some more logical, block-and-grap -type of application?

How likely it is that you can use this "extremely practical attack" to those precise points in the middle of a fighting struggle?

Paihequan
23rd October 2003, 09:31
Jussi Häkkinen wrote:


Interesting. Does this application sound more practical for you than perhaps some more logical, block-and-grap -type of application?

How likely it is that you can use this "extremely practical attack" to those precise points in the middle of a fighting struggle?

Interesting point. I should have stated that it is just one of the applications for this type of technique as seen within the Sleeping Crane (Su Hequan), and Preying Crane (Shi Hequan) of Master Dong Mu-Yau's Fukien Immortal White Crane.

Yes of course it may be applied from a grappling situation involving body-change to the outside gate of the opponent.

Thank you for your question.

Geoff
24th October 2003, 14:46
Being a Shotokan person I have mostly seen this technique as the common "block/grab" combo. However, in Higaonna's "Power Training" video he shows a number of applications in the yakusoku kumite portion that look to be variants of this technique. I know that the Maine Criminal Justice Academy also teaches at least one pain compliance technique that bears a striking resemblance to this move. I think it is just too useful to only have originated in one lineage. My guess is that many people probably practiced this movement, but since our (my)knowledge of original teachings is so fractured we only see it's direct ancestor in a few tradiations.

Geoff Wingard