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David Dunn
4th September 2003, 12:39
I've meant to post this question for a long time but forgot. When we assume seiza, we always kneel migi ashi first. This is the opposite to the koryu budo traditions. In fact in looking for authenticity, kneeling right leg first is often a dead giveaway of a fraud. I guess the motivation is to be able to draw the sword at any moment.

Now, I'm sure Kaiso didn't just forget that the traditional way is left first, so he consciously changed it. Does anyway know why? Is it discussed by him in Kyohan?

Tripitaka of AA
7th September 2003, 21:23
Dave D Sensei, I am sorry to disappoint you, if you thought I would have the answer... I don't have a clue. But I do have a related story which has been looking for a thread to match it.

About ten years ago, Yoriko's Grandmother died, at a suitably ripe old age. We were present in Tokyo at the time, having arrived in time to see her in the hospital and join the gathering clan. The funeral was a local event, as her late husband had been a well-known local businessman and politician, and there were a great many well-wishers.

As part of the bereaved family, I was required to remain in Seiza, inside the Buddhist temple, as the queue of people filed past to pay their respects. I think it was probably about an hour and a half... maybe more. To cut this long story short, my ability to stand up at the end without falling over, won me many admirers among Yoriko's relatives (most of whom were struggling like a Gaijin White Belt after a Howa talk, hopping around like they'd had their kneecaps removed). So Shorinji Kempo training is still relevant to the modern world. :D

Steve Williams
7th September 2003, 21:38
I kneel with left leg first.......

Not because it is the way I was shown (Mizuno sensei tells me off on occasion about it :eek: {jokingly})
But because I have a bad knee, and cannot roll on it (or roll my weight across it, as you would when rolling your weight up after kneeling) without discomfort.....

On a side note..... Mizuno sensei does the same......(on left knee, not right) on the odd occasion...... And I have seen sensei in Japan do it on both knees.

So basically, it is correct (from a Shorinji view) to put right knee down first.....
But it is not incorrect to put left knee down first.

Why did kaiso do it the wrong (for wrong read "other") way...... I have no idea.
I don't read Japanese, so don't know if the Kyohan mentions it.

Kimpatsu
8th September 2003, 00:48
Gassho.
It's not mentioned in the kyohan, but I can hazard a guess that most Kenshi being right handed, it's for the practical reason of maintaining fukko hidari chudan gamae.
Kesshu.

Ade
8th September 2003, 13:15
I knelt down at summer camp, first time, first morning and landed on a piece of cut glass.
I'm currently kneeling down left knee first and it's very odd!
:cry:

jonboy
8th September 2003, 13:42
but I can hazard a guess that most Kenshi being right handed, it's for the practical reason of maintaining fukko hidari chudan gamae
But surely we should be practising both sides equally? ;)

Kimpatsu
8th September 2003, 13:49
Originally posted by jonboy
But surely we should be practising both sides equally? ;)
Gassho.
Maybe, Jon, maybe. But I'm not going to second-guess Kaiso.
Kesshu.

hyaku
8th September 2003, 14:02
Originally posted by David Dunn
I've meant to post this question for a long time but forgot. When we assume seiza, we always kneel migi ashi first. This is the opposite to the koryu budo traditions. In fact in looking for authenticity, kneeling right leg first is often a dead giveaway of a fraud. I guess the motivation is to be able to draw the sword at any moment.

Isn't assuming seiza connected with Japanese reiho and not Kobudo. The traditional manner is to go down on the foot farthest away from Kamiza. So it depended on which side of the dojo you sat.

Hyakutake Colin

Hyoho Niten Ichiryu - Kageryu

David Dunn
8th September 2003, 17:48
Thank you for the responses. I am intrigued. I'm sure Kaiso had a reason for it. I asked Mizuno Sensei and he also wasn't sure. He said it might be to do with not being easily able to draw a sword that way round.