This is NOT my idea, don't shoot the messenger.

[Ade]

Dear All

This is a genuine question, NOT a troll.

I was talking to a martial artist from a Chinese discipline that reads this forum, but refuses to contribute, as he says, "It's just intellectual masturbation."

He has one pupil.
He views large classes as "mass production."
He will go as far as saying that he blames the Americans for the homogenization of the martial arts and that 99% of all current teachers are diluted versions of pure strains.
He likens us to over-bred pedigree dogs.
But at the same time his one student supports him financially and he sees no problem in this.
I have long discussions but I would like your views either way.

Ade.
PS He also suggested a thread of "Women! a waste of time or what?"
I wasn't quite sure what he meant but I'm not that brave.

[Julian Gerhart]

this guy sounds just a tad pompus. And what the hell does he mean by intellectual masterbation. If I don't know does that make mean I'm not an intellectual? or I masterbate to much? the word elitist and the phrase "kusarigama(sp?) stuck up his @ss" come to mind.


this is a genuine question, not a troll
exactly where in your post do you ask the question?

[Ade]

Sorry Julian

I'm not quite sure of his question either.
We had drunk rather a lot of beer.
I think it's to do with the popularity of large classes and their value and the inclusion of women in martial arts.
Sh%t...incoming.

[bruceb]

In some ways, your friend is right, but in others he is wrong.

There is a beginning and there are lesser ways to learn, but watered down or not, Weapons of mass distuction and guns seem to beat all styles and training in martial arts ... sooner or later.

Yeah, there are many pieces to the martial arts puzzle and many practitioners of Chinese arts seem to think they have more pieces to the puzzle because they study the human condition, the human body and the variety of conditions that affect the human body besides pugilistic combat, and in that way of thinking ....some of them are far ahead of us mere mortals, But then ... there is a whole cross culture of east meets west and in that connection there is a stronger more apt student when that happens. The "out of the box" thinking occurs and developement of martial arts seems to progress rather than regress and fade away.

In many ways, there has to be some ... mind you .... some mental masterbation, but only enough to come to a conclusion of some kind, make a point, because if the conversation does not, it is full of sound and fury meaning nothing.

I practice something called Aikido, which is taken from sword arts and Jujitsu, but it is practiced in a very loose form that makes it safer to throw, manipulate, and be thrown. When most people, who don't study pressure points or manipulations, see it, they think people are throwing themselves,which some people do , but let's not go into that now. Yet if someone resists ... they can't help but submit or be injured. If someone in Chinese arts looks carefully, they see all the openings for their pressure point strikes are open, plus a number of their favorite manipulations are employed but in a Japanese style.

Your friend would probably go into his dance about the poor practice of this art, but I would have to counter with, well ... it sure is a lot safer then knocking people out, causing injury,or killing them, isn't it? My point is .... as knowledgable as you become about how the human body works, how it responds, and how you can make it move, the live between all martial arts become grey, and they start to merge into each other.

Everyone's body is different from other human being, and the thought process you acquire from your experiences, your society influence the manner in which you respond. One must use the tools one has, mind/body/spirit, and no one method of training will fit all human beings, nor will any one martial art style of training protect you.

Your friend is pretty much on the money about the idea that most westerners don't understand the complete puzzle to martial arts, but we "Damn Skippy" are getting there. And you tell him that for me. The progress in the 1990s was pretty amazing and I do believe by the year 2010 there will many masters around the world who will rival their Chinese counterparts with as much or more knowledge than your friend alludes to.

Call it what you will when students and teachers explore the human condition with words, and interaction with words, but it seems to both entertain and inform to some degree in a positive manner.

[Sochin]

Intelectual masterbation refers to the kind of fake dialogue we see here all the time.

There is no dialoge, no searching for understanding of the others pov in mental / intellectual masterbation, just the thrill of saying something meaningfull (to you) absurd, antagonistic or cute. It breaks the participants apart and replaces their exchange with a one sided effort to look good, feel good all by yourself.

If you kick everyone else out of the bed for their inadequacies, you end up alone, as wankers should.

[Ade]

For some reason he's not answering his phone at present, I can't wait, but what the fek was the last one about? anybody.............

[Shitoryu Dude]

My take on it would be that he is something of a pompous jerk and he has way too high of an opinion of himself and the martial arts. He most likely thinks he can levitate as well.

:beer:

[txhapkido]

Look, if you're gonna masturbate, at least spell it correctly!

[Mike Williams]

Originally posted by Ade
He has one pupil.

This is interesting. Does anyone here believe that private classes are better than group classes?

Surely a mix of training partners (sizewise and experience-wise) is essential to creating well-rounded skills?

I know privates can fill in the gaps (ooer) that group tuition might leave out, but they can't be a substitute - can they?

Cheers,

Mike

[Ade]

His assertion is that as his master's single pupil he received the undivided attention of his teacher and was his sole receptacle.
He is continuing this tradition, currently in France, and states that the majority of group classes that he has experienced/witnessed are unable to give the undivided level of attention or focus of his teaching.
He is also in the annoying habit of hinting that the Chinese, particularly, are hiding the real stuff from the West and, via this means continue to do so.

[Vapour]

Well, I practice taijiquan, some consider it to be the most esotoric style of Kung Fu.

Yes, we do have some esotoric stuff such as Neigon (internal strength exercise) or iron shirt. Also baish system (inside door student) is not uncommon where you have to go through special quasi religious ceremony to be initiated. In old day it is not unusuall for Sifu (martial arts father) to be looked after by his student in old ages.

Having said it, I don't see much point in taking stuff to his extrem. No one question that private lesson produce far better result but there is such thing as diminishing marginal productivity. You probably produce better result by having say, 3-5 students at one time. Plus, having only one student would slowly kill the art, not to mention the fact that you might ended up as a little flog in a pond who doesn't know the ocean.

Moreover, thought neigon stuff could look esotoric, it is not that secret. Even karate has some form of internal strength exercise. And if you do Chinese medicine (Kampo in Japanese) or Qigong (Kiko in Japanese) or yoga, it is not difficult to figure out how that works.

[Iain]

Originally posted by Ade
Dear All



"...It's just intellectual masturbation."



mmmm. masturbation... What was the question?

[Vapour]

Ade. A question. Does this guy fraternise or expose himself with other martial arts practioner especially with other Kung Fu practioners or does he limit his martial arts world to him and his instructor?

In Japanese, we have a saying that a frog in a well doesn't know the ocean.

[Jock Armstrong]

He is a putz.


quote from

"The linguistic contribution of Yiddisch to the English language"

Hymie Friedmann

Can there only be one??????;) ;) :D :D :D