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Shorite
19th September 2003, 01:01
can anybody give me a accurate translation of the word "battojutsu"
i have no idea how i would find out, but i was wondering because i watch this anime called Samurai X, and the guys nickname is "hito-kiri battosai" i was wondering if there was any connection

Daniel Lee
19th September 2003, 01:10
Hi David,

Batto-jutsu simply means the "art of sword drawing". The suffix -sai at the end of names, especially those for warriors/martial artists seems to have been a popular one in days gone by, and is also used by some folks today as bugou, or martial arts names. I think Hito-kiri Batto-sai (Batto-sai, the Slayer) sounds pretty cool, especially for an anime or samurai flick character. Don't know if I'd want him around the house though. ;)

Earl Hartman
19th September 2003, 02:28
Well, Daniel, if he were properly trained, he could keep the door-to-door salesmen, missionaries, and other assorted undesireables away pretty well, it seems to me.

(Sound of doorbell)

Salesman: Hello? Is anyone home?
Hitokiri Battousai: (eye twitching) May I help you?
Salesman: I have some time-share brochures if you're interested.
Hitokiri Battousai: (eye twitching even more) I think you'd better leave....now.
Salesman: But this is a really good deal! A nice cabin in Karuizawa, yours for only.........gorrkkk!!!

:saw:

Shorite
19th September 2003, 18:48
thanks guys for your input. btw he is a very cool character. i love this forum evryone is so nice, gosh darn

Shimura
23rd September 2003, 17:48
Your from Pensacola? What dojo do you practice at?
I was just curious, seeing as how I live and train down here as well.
And your right the Batto-sai is a great character. Be sure to watch the Rorouni Kenshin series, which takes up where Samurai x leaves off.

MartialArtist
30th September 2003, 05:44
What I've heard is battojutsu is another term for iaijutsu, is that correct?

Shimura
30th September 2003, 13:54
I believe it is a matter of conjecture, but I have heard the terms used interchangeably by some. From my own personal experience though I always thought Battojutsu was the style where their main area of expertise was solely on cutting, and not on waza or kumitachi. As a matter of fact my friend Hitomi in Yokohama practices a style he called "Battojutsu" that's along these lines.

Shorite
30th September 2003, 21:27
sorry to reply so late Shimura, but I train at Miracle Faith Center. we have a dojo there, its great, swing by sometime, where Pace and Palafox meet.

Shimura
1st October 2003, 17:30
Sounds interesting. By the way, what are your guys hours there so I may find some time to stop in. I train at Aikido of West Florida off of Langley in the Executive plaza (near the airport and PJC). Also what exactly to you guys practice and what organizations are you affiliated with? If you would like I could show you guys how to properly wear hakama if your interested. Just let me know. Best regards and god bless:D

dirithtai
1st October 2003, 19:51
As far as I'm aware, "battou" is cutting. Ie, you can buy a sword for iai that doesn't have an edge, or a sword for battou with an edge. thus, Battou-jutsu is the art of cutting, and hito-kiri battousai would literally be "Man-cut slasher" Or, Slasher the man slayer. That's why in translated versions of Samurai X, or the series Rorouni Kenshin he's refferred to as Battousai the man-slayer. Hito-kiri is the title manslayer, Battousai as near as I can figure means Slasher or Cutter.

My japanese isn't great, but I watch waaay to much anime.

Earl Hartman
1st October 2003, 21:15
Sorry, Tim, you are not correct.

"Batto" is made up of two characters, "batsu" (or "nuku"), referring to the act of drawing or extracting something from something else, and "to", or sword. For the sake of ease of pronunciaton, these two characters together are pronounced "batto" (with a long "o" sound). "Jutsu", as we all know, means "tehcnique" or "art".

Thus, "battoujutsu" means "sword drawing art/technique". Whether a ryu calls its art "battojutsu" "iaijutsu", "battodo", "iaido", or "iai heiho" (as my teacher did) is strictly a matter of preference or fashion. For many modern people, battojutsu or iaijutsu sounds too violent, so they say "battodo" or "iaido" instead.

However, all of these terms refer to schools or systems of swordsmanship, either independent schools or ancillary arts subsumed within comprehensive systems (sogo bujutsu), where the techniques begin with the sword at a position of rest in the scabbard. It has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the practitioner uses a real, razor-sharp sword, a real sword with a rebated edge, a mass-produced iaito, or a bokuto with a plastic scabbard, or whether practice involves cutting anything or not.

However, to the best of my knowledge, many schools which use the term "battojutsu" are descended from/related to the Toyama- Nakamura-Ryu family, and these schools do indeed emphasize cutting. This may be the source of your misunderstanding.

dirithtai
2nd October 2003, 17:47
Thanks for the clarification. Actually, my misconception came from my teacher who reffered to a difference between iai swords and battou swords, and conversations about "battou" contests that were basically judged tameshi-giri. It was a while ago, though, so maybe my mind fudged from draw and cut to just cut. I'll check with him for clarification.

I was spot on about the Hito-kiri bit, though, I checked the dictionary. (Translated as assassination, close enough). And come to think of it, draw-cuts were more Kenshin's style. :nw:

Thanks again

Jblackman
3rd October 2003, 19:05
What was ryu did Kenshin study? Is that a real Ryu? Somebody told me that when I was buying Trust/Bestral.

MartialArtist
4th October 2003, 00:17
Yes, Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu is a real style. To study the style, you need to buy a reverse-edge katana because otherwise, it would be too deadly. An iaito won't work as most iaito are made of zinc/aluminum. If you can find a steel iaito, then that's good. Hanwei/Paul Chen is coming out with some steel iaitos.

The attacks are real. One can really create a vacuum/warp with the secret succession technique, but nobody's been able to do it after the 1800s.

:o

MartialArtist
4th October 2003, 00:17
Yes, Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu is a real style. To study the style, you need to buy a reverse-edge katana because otherwise, it would be too deadly. An iaito won't work as most iaito are made of zinc/aluminum. If you can find a steel iaito, then that's good. Hanwei/Paul Chen is coming out with some steel iaitos.

The attacks are real. One can really create a vacuum/warp with the secret succession technique, but nobody's been able to do it after the 1800s.

:o

Leitbur
9th October 2003, 07:41
Yeah, I've seen many different translations of Hito-kiri Battousai, including all the ones that have been mentioned above. If you're going for exact translations, the above are the ones I'd go with. However, while perhaps not the most accurate in exact translation, the one that I think best describes Kenshin (Who's name, if I recall, means soul of the sword, loosely anyway) and the job he held during the revolution would be 'Sword Drawing Master Assassin'. Again, it's not an exact translation, but to a great extent it does describe his position a little more. While man slayer is probably a little more broad a term for his role, Kenshin was basically a high profile assassin of high ranking Tokugawa officials as well as against similar assassins of the Shogunate. This is my take on the translation, but you did ask for exactness, so choose whatever one you want.

Eric Whims

Kaoru
9th October 2003, 08:05
Hi!

Very interesting thread here. I just went and checked and Kenshin actually means "Heart of Sword." You were close though! :D

Hahaha! Good one William! :D (No, it's not a real Ryu, He's just joking... :D )

Hitokiri does mean "Assassin." Manslayer isn't accurate.

Carolyn Hall

shugyosha
9th October 2003, 17:25
kenshin is made out of two kanji, the first for the sword and the second can be translated as "heart, spirirt or divine"
it is translated as "the divine sword" in the oav rurouni kenshin

i found some translation over the net:

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu: Flying Dragon's Honorable Sword Flow
Battou Jutsu: Sword Cutter Skill or Sword-draw Art

i think the most interesting thing in this ova is the spiritual side, kenshin draw his sword without thinking about techics, naturaly and deadly, when meeting the shisen gummi, while his enemy present his own ryu and technic he's about two use, he says:

"names are useless!"

Leitbur
13th October 2003, 04:18
Well my translation of Hiten Mitsurugi-ryu is a little different. Mine equals out to be Heaven Flying/Jumping Holy Sword Style. Hi = to fly or jump, Ten = Heaven/sky, Mi (being a preflex usually denotes something of God = holy, and Tsurugi = sword. I suppose since it is a made up style it doesn't really matter too much though.

I won't argue with the battoujutsu translation, close enough for me.

If I am wrong though I do apologize.

Eric Whims