" The code of the samauri"

[freedom_fighter]

1. Fidelity towards master and fatherland.

2. Respect towards parents, brothers, and sisters.

3. Assideousness, steadiness.

4. Respect and love.

5. Modesty and correct etiquette.

6. Valour, courage, and bravery.

7. Hardness and softness. (tough but sincere.)

8. Never lose self control.

9. Patience and endurence.

10. Promptness. (always cautious and ready)

11. Sencirity and straight forwardness.

12. Sence of honor and justice.

13. simplicity and purity

My freind told me those so dont call me stupid if they are wrong, just correct me.




T Goss

[kage110]

Are you asking a question or telling us?

BTW, your signature showing your full name would include your first name also. I apologise if your name is T.:rolleyes:

[freedom_fighter]

Dont quit know what you mean by "am i asking a question" but, i was just letting you guys know. And every one has called me T.C. my whole life so i go by that. Is that ok?









T.C. Goss

[Jock Armstrong]

Where did you get the list from TC?

[freedom_fighter]

i got it from a freind and a little research.












T.C. Goss

[Soulend]

The tenets of the so-called "Code of the Samurai" or "Bushido" are:

1. Rectitude

2. Courage

3. Benevolence

4. Politeness

5. Veracity

6. Honor

7. Loyalty

Now forget the so-called "Bushido". Read this (http://koryu.com/library/kfriday2.html), and realize that these are romanticized and idealized traits of the bushi. The average samurai was crooked as hell and would stab you in the back as soon as look at you. Read about Sekigahara, or the history of feudal Japan in general.

You are getting this from your "I am a samurai, living by the code of bushido" friend, aren't you? Tell him to lay off the weed and the Hagakure.

[don]

Originally posted by Soulend
The tenets of the so-called "Code of the Samurai" or "Bushido" are:

1. Rectitude
2. Courage
3. Benevolence
4. Politeness
5. Veracity
6. Honor
7. Loyalty

DJM: Sounds like the house rules for a retailer in Edo. The values for Bushido are about the same as those for Shingaku (code of the merchant) and Hotoku (code of the farmer.)

Now forget the so-called "Bushido". Read this (http://koryu.com/library/kfriday2.html),

DJM: Excellent ref. Also, Death, Honor, and Loyalty: The Bushidó Ideal. By G. Cameron Hurst III http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_hurst_0501.htm

and realize that these are romanticized and idealized traits of the bushi. The average samurai was crooked as hell and would stab you in the back as soon as look at you. Read about Sekigahara, or the history of feudal Japan in general.

DJM: Hmm. There's certainly bathwater in the mix, but there's some life there, too. We can't repudiate everything with nasty roots--radar (to shoot down planes), nuclear medicine (from nuclear weapons), capitalism (from piracy). We don't want to ignore history, but we don't want it to make us cynical, either. I agree with Soulend about the starry-eyed nonsense re: Bushido, et al. but we can wrest value from it nevertheless (not meaning to dun Soulend, here, this is a dialog I have with myself against my own critical capacities when they metastasize into cynicism).

[Jock Armstrong]

I read that early on [gempei war, 12th c] that they had only three;

chi, jin, yu- benevolence, wisdom, courage. I may be wrong of course. I noticed that in all the writings [incl Hagakure] truth doesn't rate a mention.Akechi Mitsuhide was quoted as saying that lies were just another weapon. He was the paragon of virtue who went onto assassinate his own boss, Oda Nobunaga. There does seem to be a lot of romanticised nonsense floating around. As for anyone who comes up with "I live by the code of the samurai" needs help. If there isn't atrail of corpses marking his passage we know he isn't.............

The samurai observed "bushido" about as much as the Crusaders observed chivalry.

[Soulend]

Hi Mr. Modesto. I don't think it's really so much cynicism as a dose of reality. All of these qualities are admirable and should be strived toward, but they are not neccesarily "samurai" qualities inasmuch as we can implement them today. For example, is it really possible or even desirable to have the fanatical Confucian loyalty of the ideal bushi for one's employer today?

What we have are traits and values held by decent people the world over - there's nothing "samurai" about it as far as I can see. Drawing a connection between virtue and classical warriors of the past is very romantic, but quite unneccesary. Regular people who wouldn't know a member of the Buke from a Masai warrior are upright, truthful, polite, brave and have all of the other qualities all the time - just as would any decent Boy Scout.

Seems to me there are those digging into exotic areas and ancient texts to find the same values their parents should have taught them in the first place. This would be understandable if the entire samurai class held the same values and could thus be held up as a model, but they didn't.

[don]

Originally posted by Soulend
Hi Mr. Modesto. I don't think it's really so much cynicism as a dose of reality. All of these qualities are admirable and should be strived toward, but they are not neccesarily "samurai" qualities inasmuch as we can implement them today. For example, is it really possible or even desirable to have the fanatical Confucian loyalty of the ideal bushi for one's employer today?

What we have are traits and values held by decent people the world over - there's nothing "samurai" about it as far as I can see. Drawing a connection between virtue and classical warriors of the past is very romantic, but quite unneccesary. Regular people who wouldn't know a member of the Buke from a Masai warrior are upright, truthful, polite, brave and have all of the other qualities all the time - just as would any decent Boy Scout.

Seems to me there are those digging into exotic areas and ancient texts to find the same values their parents should have taught them in the first place. This would be understandable if the entire samurai class held the same values and could thus be held up as a model, but they didn't.

Huh!

Usually I edit posts to address specific points. I didn't find anything here I wanted to cut despite only wanting to say I agree. Nicely said.

[freedom_fighter]

HI every one. I have been GROUNDED!! it really sucks. did i miss any thing? didn't think so... haha. I am hoping to stay on until i screw up again.








T.C. Goss

[mech]

Yes, It is Easy for us 21 century men to say: "No, they werent that good, they didint follow the codes, it is just a romantic recopilation that ve been brought to us"

It isnt worse than to try to live into todays ritm praying the four winds those codes without the required acoplement/actualitation.

The first one is false and the second one is out of context.

My point is that... I will use a freind as an example:

He says that is his everyday life besides his Own iniciative for to live somewhat elevated codes, he rarely finds it anywhere at the street: nor at work, nor at the supermarket, or the boy scouts, or the church, social movements or the bare feet carmelites...

He doesnt say that doesnt exists... but he finds it somewhat "diluted"

So the only way these days is for to look for the ones of its own kind, those that really strives for to achieve same goals

Anyone can find strict codes at the military, fervorous people at the church, loyalty at the scouts, humbleness at the Franciscan Carmelites, and so on...


Quote.-"Drawing a connection between virtue and classical warriors of the past is very romantic, but quite unneccesary." Mr. Craik


No, it can constitute an example, a guide, somewhat a solid pilar you should hang from, the important here is that it should be surely practical for you "on and outside the mats". Not forgeting that following ancestors mistakes will lead you also end inside them, so be careful, you should know what is right for each case.


MECH
Manuel Ch. Anderson
CCS

[captain_maynard]

Originally posted by Soulend
The tenets of the so-called "Code of the Samurai" or "Bushido" are:

1. Rectitude

2. Courage

3. Benevolence

4. Politeness

5. Veracity

6. Honor

7. Loyalty

Now forget the so-called "Bushido". Read this (http://koryu.com/library/kfriday2.html), and realize that these are romanticized and idealized traits of the bushi. The average samurai was crooked as hell and would stab you in the back as soon as look at you. Read about Sekigahara, or the history of feudal Japan in general.

You are getting this from your "I am a samurai, living by the code of bushido" friend, aren't you? Tell him to lay off the weed and the Hagakure.




you might be interested in what the REAL samurai said in their writings......
Ideals of the samurai translated by william scott wilson (1982) This dispells a lot of myth by anti-samurai writers who dont do their homework......

In response to several erroneous articles about the Samurai, I post the following response:


Last Samurai: Movie Myth or History?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/12/1202_031202_lastsamurai.html

Samurai - Not Exactly What We Thought They Were
November 2003
http://academic.bowdoin.edu/academics/news/archives/asian_studies/000017.shtml

The Truth about Samurai: It's Unlikely Tom Cruise's Film Will Get it Right, Says Bowdoin Professor
Good Movie, But Not Good History?
http://www.collegenews.org/x2957.xml


Sacramento Bee
Sacramento, California, USA
Mr. Wlliam Evans, Staff Writer
CC: Editor, Sacramento Bee
CC: Tconlan@bowdoin.edu
CC: Stephen.turnbull@virgin.net
CC: History channel
CC: editor@collegenews.org
CC: Stefan Lovgren, C/O Editor,National Geographic magazine

Mr. Evans,

Regarding your December 9, 2003 article entitled "'Samurai': The latest saber film to savor" (http://www.sacticket.com/static/movies/news/1209samurai.html), you included information from a historian named Tom Conlan of Bowdoin College. I would like to bring your attention to an article in Archeology Magazine where Mr. Conlan's assertion of Mongols use of bombs against Samurai were found to be incorrect. His conclusion was based on an artwork depicting a Samurai being thrown from his horse during a Mongol - Samurai battle by an explosion caused by a aerial bomb. He claims that the 13th century art work was altered and the depiction of the bomb was a "later addition".

The article, along with photos of the bombs recovered from sunken Mongol ships used in the attempted invasion of Japan can be seen here:

Volume 56 Number 1, January/February 2003
RELICS OF THE KAMIKAZE
Excavations off Japan's coast are uncovering Kublai Khan's ill-fated invasion fleet.
BY JAMES P. DELGADO
http://www.archaeology.org/0301/etc/kamikaze.html

(excerpt)

"In his recent book In Little Need of Divine Intervention, which analyzes two Japanese scrolls that depict the Mongol invasion, Bowdoin College historian Thomas Conlan suggests that a scene showing a samurai falling from his horse as a bomb explodes over him was a later addition. Conlan's research masterfully refutes many of the traditional myths and commonly held perceptions of the invasion, downplaying the number of ships and troops involved and arguing that it was not the storms but the Japanese defenders ashore, as well as confusion and a lack of coordination, that thwarted the khan's two invasions. But his suggestion that the exploding bomb is an anachronism has now been demolished by solid archaeological evidence. Moreover, when the Japanese x-rayed two intact bombs, they found that one was filled just with gunpowder while the other was packed with gunpowder and more than a dozen square pieces of iron shrapnel intended to cut down the enemy. "

I am bringing attention to Conlan's mistake because I feel he has made another very serious error in his conclusions about bushido. I strongly disagree with Mr. Conlan's assertions in your recent article that "Bushido was largely created to justify the existence of warriors who had nothing to do during centuries of peacetime" . This statement is in direct conflict with a large body of Japanese historical writings. I feel that Mr. Conlan has again made a conclusion without examining all of the facts.


http://academic.bowdoin.edu/academics/news/archives/asian_studies/000017.shtml
He also states: "I have a very different take on what the Samurai are, were, than the later ideal," he said.
”The myth of the Samurai is just that. The folkloric vision of the Samurai - a loyal warrior, ready to die for his cause, riding into battle with his sword - bunk. In fact, the Samurai, or at least the ideal with which we are so familiar, were born in peace. “
"Loyalty has been grossly exaggerated. Warriors were interested in reward and recompense. Conlan found evidence that warriors moved from one side to another depending on the reward they would receive"


Mr Conlan's comments can also be seen here: http://www.collegenews.org/x2957.xml
and he has appeared on National geographic specials and the History Channel's special on Samurai.
CONLAN (2003): “In a time of peace, with a stable government, and no more land rights, the Samurai needed to justify their existence. They began promoting that "the way of the Samurai was death," and exaggerating their sense of honor and loyalty.”
"When you have peace, you can say, the way of the warrior is death. But that's a luxury that you can only say in a time of peace. In a time of war, you can't say that," Conlan said. "I just think their 14th-century compatriots were far more sensible."



Kato Kiyomasa (1562-1611): "One should put forth great effort in matters of learning. One should read books concerning military matters, and direct his attention exclusively to
the virtues of loyalty and filial piety. Reading Chinese poetry, linked
verse, and waka is forbidden. One will surely become womanized if he gives
his heart such knowledge of such elegant and delicate refinements. Having
been born into the house of a warrior, one's intentions should be to grasp
the long and the short swords and to die"


I would like to make you aware that many of his other generalizations are incorrect and misrepresent the values of the warriors.

It should be noted that Bushido was central to a warrior's courage and there is plenty of documentation of it from the 13th century onward (see attachment 3). In fact, a pivotal battle fought by one Torii Mototada helped enable Tokugawa Ieyasu to consolidate control over the country of Japan. Torii Mototada cited the code of Bushido in his farewell letter to his son as his reason for staying behind in a doomed castle, even though he could have easily escaped. Mototada also warned his son against aspiring for lordship and desiring money. in his last words, he asked his eldest son to raise his siblings to serve Ieyasu, "even if every province in Japan were to turn against him, you will serve his clan and his clan alone. You will never set foot in another fief till the end of time" Fushimi castle fell after its defenders, outnumbered by more than ten to one, fought down to the last man. Mototada killed himself rather than be taken alive. A young samurai from the opposing forces approached “and waited respectfully for Mototada to commit seppuku and cut off his head”

The writings of the warriors mention it specifically as their reason for sacrificing themselves and for their actions over the course of their lives. Bushido along with other social influences in Japanese life including Buddhism, Shinto, and especially Confucianism and the works of Sun Tzu were responsible for the warriors lack of fear during battle and extreme loyalty to their lords.

One 16th century Samurai, Kato Kiyomasa went so far as to threaten his men with banishment or being forced to commit seppuku if they didn’t follow Bushido or if they strayed to far from martial arts training by studying poetry and plays:

"the practice of Noh Drama is absolutely forbidden.....A samurai who
practices dancing, which is outside of the martial arts, should be ordered
to commit seppuku."

"if a man does not investigate into the matter of Bushido daily, it will be
difficult for him to die a brave and manly death. Thus it is essential to
engrave This business of the warrior into one's mind well."
"The above conditions should be adhered to night and day. if there is anyone
who finds these conditions difficult to fulfill, he should be dismissed, an
investigation should b quickly carried out, it should be signed and sealed
that he was unable to mature in the Way of Manhood, and he should be driven
out. “


It should also be noted that Japanese society from the earliest recorded history respected those who showed a balance in life: "BUN BU Ryo Do" "The pen and the sword in accord", if you will. A well balanced person being one who is an expert in literature and art as well as the blade. One of the early words for "warrior" consisted of two kanji representing harmony between "bu" and "bun" signifying a well rounded, educated person. From japan's earliest writings in the 8th century there are references to the "literary men and warriors whom the nation values" (Shoku Nihongi 797AD)

Over and over again there are examples of writings of lords and warriors (1200ad to 1600ad) who quote buddhist philosophy and order their descendants to show compassion and mercy for the other social classes. I would be happy to cite dozens of examples of their wisdom, philosophy and devotion to "the way of the warrior".

As with all examples, there are exceptions and Mr. Conlan treats the exceptions to the example as "the truth". One must keep in mind that Samurai were often fighting for their lives and those of their families. If another army stood in the way, it was "kill or be killed". There is no way to sugar coat this or make excuses. However, to say that Bushido was largely the invention of peace time is very irresponsible and an insult to those who showed great discipline and gave their lives in its name. Make no mistake about it, Bushido is what gave men their courage and carried them through the age of warfare in Japan. Mr Conlan could have not been more wrong.

references:
Ideals of the Samurai (1982) - Translated by William Scott Wilson. Every Chapter directly contradicts Conlan's statements. they are the actual writings of the warriors themselves from 1200AD to 1600AD.

Buke No Kakun by Yoshida Yutaka

The message of master Gokurakuji
Hojo Shigetoki (1198-1261AD)

The Chikubasho
Shiba Yoshimasa (1359-1410AD)

The regulations of Imagawa Ryoshun
Imagawa Ryoshun (1325-1420AD)

The 17 articles of Asakura Toshikage
Asakura Toshikage (1428-1481AD)

The 21 precepts of Hojo Soun
Hojo Nagauji (1432-1519AD)

The Recorded words or Asakura Soteki
Asakura Norikage (1474-1555AD)

The Imamizudera monogatari
Takeda Shingen (1521-1573AD)

Opinions in 99 articles
Takeda Nobushige (1525-1561AD)

Lord Nabeshima's Wall Inscriptions
Nabeshima Naoshige (1538-1618AD)

The Last statement of Torii mototada
Torii mototada (1539-1600AD)

The Precepts of Kato Kiyomasa
Kato Kiyomasa(1562-1611AD)

Notes on regulations
Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623AD)

Sengoku No Busho by sasaki ginya









(Attachment to email)

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXX[mailto:XXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 11:05 PM
To: wevans@sacbee.com
Cc: editor@collegenews.org
Subject: Samurai article



Statements contrary to Mr. Conlan's conclusions. i have attached two
statements of actual warlords who played a major role in history. i have
dozens more examples which i will be happy to provide. (Conlan asserts emphasizing the samurai code "is the way of Death" was made up years after the wars were over during the Tokugawa era. as you can see here, they clearly spoke of Bushido and the duty of the warrior to die in the 16th century)


In some of the examples, the warriors explicitly mention the writings of confucious and the I Ching and Sun Tsu by name. they also stress the importance of loyalty and filial
loyalty. they speak of Karma and reincarnation and the importance of
Buddhism. In some cases, these men were also Buddhist priests who condemned
the wanton taking of life!

Most of the writings stress the importance of "the way of the warrior" and
what it means to live a life of courage and strength, balanced by kindness to
others.





Example 1:

The following was written BEFORE the Tokugawa shogunate during the era of
intense warfare preceding it. Kato Kiyomasa was one of the most ferocious
samurai who ever lived. He insists that his men follow Bushido, even to the
point of threatening them.



"The Precepts of Kato Kiyomasa"
here is what i found on Kato Kiyomasa (1562-1611)

(IT begins with a description of how one's day should begin "Rise at 4am to
practice martial arts", how to dress, what kind of food to serve to guests
"plain brown rice", and how a samurai should behave)

"One should put forth great effort in matters of learning. One should read
books concerning military matters, and direct his attention exclusively to
the virtues of loyalty and filial piety. reading chinese poetry, linked
verse, and waka is forbidden. One will surely become womanized if he gives
his heart such knowledge of such elegant and delicate refinements. having
been born into the house of a warrior, one's intentions should be to grasp
the long and the short swords and to die"

"the practice of Noh Drama is absolutely forbidden.....A samurai who
practices dancing, which is outside of the martial arts, should be ordered
to commit seppuku."

"if a man does not investigate into the matter of Bushido daily, it will be
difficult for him to die a brave and manly death. Thus it is essential to
engrave This business of the warrior into one's mind well."
"The above conditions should be adhered to night and day. if there is anyone
who finds these conditions difficult to fulfill, he should be dismissed, an
investigation should b quickly carried out, it should be signed and sealed
that he was unable to mature in the Way of Manhood, and he should be driven
out.
To this, there is no doubt"

To all samurai
Kato Kazuenokami Kiyomasa





example 2:

This was written before the Tokugawa Shogunate. the writer specifically
mentions "the way of the warrior" as his reasons for his actions. Tokugawa
would not have come to power were it not for this bravery.

In the year 1600, Tokugawa Ieyasu began campaigning east to Aizu, leaving
the strategic Fushimi castle in the care of Torii Mototada. Both men knew
that the forces of Ishida Mitsumari (Vassal of the Toyotomi and in league
with Konishi Yukinaga) were approaching and would attack the castle as soon
as Tokugawa left. Tokugawa expressed concerns that the castle's forces were
insufficient, but Torii insisted that the castle would fall even if its
forces were multiplied by ten times. He told Ieyasu to take his troops from
the castles defense and employ them in the east. The destruction of the
castle certain, both men spent their final evening together talking about
old times. On August 27, the combined forces of Ishida Mitsumari and Konishi
yukinaga arrived to lay siege to the castle which held out against
incredible odds for more than ten days. Torii Mototada and 300 of his men charged into battle 5 times before falling exhausted into Fushimi castle. Torii Mototada and his garrison were cut down to the last man. Torii Mototada killed himself rather than be taken alive. "A young samurai from the opposing forces waited respectfully while Mototada committed seppuku and then removed his head" His tactic enabled Ieyasu to make gains further east and consolidate control over the country.

The Last Statement of Torii Mototada (1539-1600AD)

(written by Torii to his son Tadamasa a few days before the fall of the
castle. It is a moving account of unbending and selfless loyalty of vassal
to master, and expresses in very clear terms that the true meaning of being
a warrior is to die in battle.)

Recently there has been the report of an uprising in the Kamigata area, and
that a large number of rebel daimyo who have fallen into the evil scheming
of Ishida Mitsunari will first lay siege to this castle and are now making
such preparations with large forces.
For myself, I am resolved to make a stand within the castle and to die a
quick death It would not take much trouble to break through a part of their
numbers and escape, no matter how many tens of thousands of horsemen
approached for the attack or by how many columns we were surrounded. But
that is not the true meaning of being a warrior, and it would be difficult
to account as loyalty. Rather, I will stand off the forces of the entire
country here, and without one one-hundredth of the men necessary to do so,
will throw up a defense and die a resplendent death. By doing so I will show
that to abandon a castle that should be defended, or to value one's life so
much as to avoid danger and to show the enemy one's weakness is not within
the family traditions of my master Ieyasu. Thus I will have taken the
initiative in causing lord Ieyasu's other retainers to be resolved, and in
advancing righteousness to the warriors of the entire country. It is not the
way of the warrior to be shamed and avoid death even under circumstances
that are not particularly important. It goes without saying that to
sacrifice one's life for one's master is an unchanging principle. As this is
a matter I have thought over beforehand, I think that circumstances such
that I am meting now must be envied by people of understanding.

You Tadamasa, should understand the following well. Our ancestors have been
personal vassals of the Matsudaira for generations........

(Mototada gives a lengthy history of how his father served Tokugawa's
ancestors, naming the names of his ancestors)

"Because lord Ieyasu is well aware of my loyalty, he has left me here in
charge of the important area of Kamigata as Deputy of Fushimi Castle while
he advances toward the east, and for a warrior there is nothing that could
surpass this good fortune. That I should be able to go ahead of all of the
other warriors of this country and lay down my life for the sake of my
master's benevolence is an honor to my family and has been my most fervent
desire for many years.

"After I am slain you must lovingly care for your younger brothers......."

(Mototada tells his son to raise his younger brothers and to offer
themselves to Ieyasu as soon as they are able)

"They must be determined to stand with Lord Ieyasu's clan in both its ascent
and decline, in times of peace and in times of war; and either waking or
sleeping they must never forget that they serve his clan and his clan alone.
"To be avaricious for land or to forget old debts because of some passing
dissatisfaction, or to even temporarily entertain treacherous thoughts is not
the Way of Man. Even if all of the other provinces of Japan were to unite
against our lord, our descendants should not set foot inside another fief to
the end of time........."

(the section continues with several vows of loyalty to Ieyasu)

I am now 62 years of age. Of the number of times I have barely escaped death
since the time I was in Mikawa I have no Idea. Yet, not once have I acted in
a cowardly way......

(There is a lengthy section where Mototada advises his son to listen to
older retainers for advice)

"The entire country will soon be in the hands of your master lord Ieyasu. If
this is so, the men who served him will no doubt hope to become daimyo by
his appointment. You should know that if such feelings arise, they are
inevitably the beginning of the end of one's fortunes in the Way of the
Warrior. Being affected by the avarice for office and rank, or wanting to
become a daimyo and being eager for such things.......will not one begin to
value his life?"

"And how can a man commit acts of martial valor if he values his life? A man
who has been born into the house of a warrior and yet places no loyalty in
his heart and thinks only of the fortune of his position will be flattering
on the surface and construct schemes in his heart, will forsake
righteousness and not reflect on his shame, and will stain the warriors name
of his household to later generations............"

(Mototada gives his son advice on how to run the affairs of the clan and
ends his statement with this

Be first of all prudent in your conduct and have correct manners, develop
harmony between master and retainers, and have compassion on those beneath
you. Be correct in the degree of rewards and punishments, and let there be
no partiality in your degree of intimacy with your retainers. The foundation
of man's duty as a man is in "truth". Beyond this, there is nothing to be
said"



EXAMPLE 3
The date is 1412 and i have dozens more examples just like this one......


*Imagawa Sadao 1325-1420 AD
-A leading general and strategist of his era, he was also a leading scholar and poet famous for historical writings and poetry. Student of Nijo Yoshimoto,His family were a cadet family of the Ashikaga named after their manor at Imagawa in Mikawa Province. His father was governor of Suruga Province, appointed by Shogun Takauji and married into the court nobility. in 1361 Imagawa sadao backed the Northern court in its dispute with the southern court, defeating Hosokawa Kiyouji at Yoshino. Afterwards, he returned to Kyoto and became a Buddhist, taking the first name "Ryoshun". In 1370, Ryoshun was sent to Kyushu to control the area as military governor, since bakfu control over Kyushu had began to fall apart. He spent the next ten years in this position and pursued his literary studies as well.

In 1395, the Shogun, yoshimitsu began to fear that Ryoshun had become too powerful and posed a threat. Ryoshun was ordered back to Suruga to resume his governorship there, where he spent the rest of his life studying and writing literature and poetry. He is famous for amoung many works "Michiyukiburi" a writing of his travels and poetry, "Nan taiheiki" a historical work, and "the Regulations/Imagawa Wall Inscriptions", written for his brother Tadaki in 1412, using Kanbun. the regulations are very respected and used as a model for proper values by traditional Japanese.

He emphasizes that a warrior must be a man of both military might and of literary education.. Ryoshun was opposed to the excessive taking of lives as a Buddhist, but he reveled in his life as a warrior. He was a Confucian and cites the Chinese classics as his influences. He commanded respect for one's family and stressed the edicts of Loyalty and duty to one's master. Ryoshun is seen as the ideal example of the warrior in balance and harmony with the "BUN and BU".




The Regulations of Imagawa Ryoshun

"Without knowledge of Learning, one will ultimately have no military victories."

"Cormorant fishing and falconing are pleasures that uselessly destroy life. They are forbidden."

"it is forbidden to pass the death sentence on a man who has committed a major crime without full investigation"

"It is forbidden to use favoritism and excuse a man who has committed a major crime"

"It is forbidden to bring about one's own excessive prosperity by means of exploiting the people and causing the destruction of shrines."

"It is forbidden to tear down one's ancestors' family temples and pagodas, thereby embellishing one's own domicile"

"It is forbidden to forget the great debt of kindness one owes to his master and ancestors and thereby make light of the virtues of loyalty and filial piety."

"It is forbidden that one should, acting disrespective of the Way of Heaven, attach little importance to his duties to his master and be overly attentive to his own business"

"It is forbidden to be indiscriminate of one's retainers good or evil actions and to distribute unjust rewards and punishments."

be mindful of the fact that, as you know the works of your own retainers, the master knows yours in the same way.

"It is forbidden to disrupt the relationships of other people, and to make others anguish your own pleasure."

"It is forbidden to put others profit at a loss and, recklessly embracing one's own ambition, increase one's own power"

"It is forbidden to be disregardful of one's own financial status and to live too far above it or below it"

"It is forbidden to have contempt for wise retainers and prefer flatterers, and to have one's actions be influenced by those conditions"

"One should not be envious of someone who has prospered by unjust deeds. Nor should he disdain someone who has fallen while adhering to the path of righteousness."

"It is forbidden to be given up to drinking and carousing and, in gambling and the like, to forget one's family duties."

"It is forbidden to be prideful of one's own cleverness, and to ridicule others about everything"

"When a person comes to one's home, it is forbidden to feign illness and thus avoid meeting him."

"It is forbidden to enjoy one's own tranquility, and to retire a man without adding to him some stipend."

"It is forbidden to be excessive in one's own clothing and armor, while his retainers go about shabbily."

"One should be highly reverential of Buddhist priests and treat them with correct manners."

"Regardless of a person's high or low position, it is forbidden to disregard the law of karma, and to simply live in ease."

"It is forbidden to erect barriers in one's own domain and thus cause distress to travelers both coming and going"

THE ABOVE ARTICLES SHOULD BE KEPT IN MIND AT ALL TIMES


Postcript:


"It is natural that training in the martial arts is the Way of the warrior, but it is important to put them into actual practice. First, it is written in the Four Books and Five Classics(The Analects, the great learning, the doctrine of the mean, the book of mencius and The Odes, the Book of History, The book of Changes, The Book of Rites and the Book of Spring and Autumn annals) as well as in the military writings that in protecting the country, if one is ignorant in the study of literature, he will be unable to govern.

Just as Buddha preached the various laws in order to save all living beings, one must rack one's brains and never depart from the Ways of both Warrior and Literary Man."

"From the time one is young, he should associate with companions who are upright and not even temporarily be taken in by friends of low character. just as water will conform to the shape of the vessel that contains it, so will a man follow the good and evil of his companions. This is so True. Therefore it is said that the master who governs his domain well loves wise retainers, while the man who exploits the people loves flatterers. this means that if one would know the heart of the master, he should look to the companions who the master loves. One should truely take this to heart. To prefer friends who are superior to him, and to avoid those who are his inferiors, is the wisdom of the good man. however, considering this to be true, it will not do to be overly fastidious in one's choice of people. This is simply saying that one should not love those who are evil. This is not limited to the man who governs the country, for without the love and respect of the masses, all matters are difficult to achieve.

First of all, a samurai who dislikes battle and has not put his heart in the right place even though he has been born in the house of the warrior, should not be reckoned amoung one's retainers. many famous generals have made this admonition. Next, if one would wonder about the good and evil of his own heart, he may think of himself as good if many people of both high and low positions gather at his door. And, even if one invites many people, and still they neglect him and he has no comrades, he should think of his own conduct as being incorrect.

Yet, I suppose there are two ways of having the gate crowded with callers. there are also occasions when the people are fearful of the masters' iniquity, are exploited by the high handedness of his retainers and opposed by the plots of his companions, and will gather at the gates of the authorities complaining of their afflictions with explanations of their distress. one should be able to discern such situations well and to correct the arbitrariness of his retainers. He should entrust himself to the wise sayings of the ancients and follow the conditions of the law.

A man who is said to be a master should, in the same way the sun and the moon shine on the grass and tress all over the land, ponder day and night with a heart of compassion into matters of rewards and punishments, for his vassals both near and far, and even to those officials separated from him by mountains and sea; and he should use those men according to their talents. It is possible that there are many examples of men becoming leaders of samurai, and yet being negligent and lacking wisdom and ability, and thus incurring the criticism of men both high and low. Just as Buddha preached the various laws in order to save all living beings, one must rack one's brains and never depart from the Ways of both Warrior and Scholar.

In Governing the country, it is dangerous to lack even one of the virtues of humanity, righteousness, etiquette and wisdom. IN adhering to correct government, , there will be no rancor from the people when crimes are punished. But when the government makes its stand in unrighteousness and the death penalty is passed, there will be deep lamenting. and in such a case there will be no escaping the retribution of Karma.


"There is a primary need to distinguish loyalty from disloyalty and to establish rewards and punishments. It is meaningless to divide up the administration of the domain if one's vassals commit useless acts in their own interests, have no ability in the martial arts, and do not sustain their underlings. And though one can say that the treatment of his vassals in the division of the fiefs has not differed since the time of his ancestors, differences in conduct and authority are dependant of the same frame of mind of the present master.

Being born into a family that has from the beginning earnestly known the Way of Battle, it is truely regrettable to wastefully tamper with the domain, support no soldiers, and receive the scorn of all."

Thus the above is written

in the 19th year of Oei

Imagawa Ryoshun




(Example 4)"Message of Master Gokurakuji" written by Hojo Shigetoki, former militray governor of Suruga province 1223. appointed shogunal deputy of Kyoto 1230AD to 1247AD, helped military regent organize the bakufu and then retired as a buddhist monk in 1256, established a temple of the Ritsu sect and spent the rest of his life in seclusion. Known for his loyalty and help to higher up relatives, his writings reflect the religious overtones of the Hojo family. written in Kanamajiri style, he leaves two famous works: "Precepts of the Lord of Rokuhara" and Message of Master Gokurakuji-dono. The over all tone of the work "reflects buddhist sympathy for all living things and awareness of the functions of karma. Women Children, and those of lower social standing are to be treated kindly and with regard...." "if one will fix his heart in such a way and assist the world and its people, he will have the devotion of the men who see and hear of him" amazingly, he gives advice on drinking, gambling and consorting with dancers and prostitutes! i found this to be very amusing: (there are several sections like this) "when one is selecting a partner from a number of prostitutes, he should pick one who is unattractive and whose dress is less than comely. A man will lose his heart to an attractive girl, but an unattractive one will have no partner. Moreover, one's heart will not be taken in this way. And this will be for only one night, one can imagine that the prostitute will be pleased too." Most of the text is serious and speaks of samurai values, but it ends with this: "Again, i feel unusually shameful about these things, do not let them out to other people. See this as a memento Of a person of the past and with one breath intone Namu Amida Bustu"
(Example 5)
"NOTES ON REGULATIONS" by Kuroda Nagamasa 1568-1623 His writings "extols the balance if the arts of peace (confucian learning and literature) with the arts of war, and encourages fairness and sympathy with the other three classes of people......." "Generally speaking, the master of a province should discharge his duties with love and humanity, should not listen to slander, and should exercise the good...... When one has been born into the house of a military commander he should not forget the arts of war for even one moment" "again what is called cherishing the way of the warrior is not a matter of extolling the martial arts above all things and becoming a scaremonger" "The arts of peace (literary study) and the arts of war are like two wheels of a cart which, lacking one, will have difficulty in standing."


(Example 6)
The Shiba Family was a branch of the Ashikaga. Yoshimasa was an expert on poetry, calligraphy and football (called "Kemari")
From the "Chikubasho" written by Shiba Yoshimasa age 33 in "elegant classical japanese style"(1350-1410):
"in this uncertain world, ours should be the path of discipline"
"a man whose profession is arms should calm his mind and look into the depths of others. Doing so is likely the best of the martial arts"
(there is a lengthy quotation where he expounds on the importance of the balance between literary education and military training, i will post it by request)





Notes on Japanese literature:
First use of the term "bushi" in Japanese literature:
from the "Shoku Nihongi", 797AD
"Literary men and warriors are they whom the nation values"
Early use if the term "samurai" in japanese literature:
From "the Kokinshu" (early 10th century)
"Attendant to nobility
Ask for your master's umbrella
The dews neath the trees of Miyagino
Are thicker than rain"
By the end of the 10th century, use of the terms "saburai" and "bushi" became one in the same.
First use of the term "warrior" in Japanese literature:
from "the Kojiki" 712 AD
The first emperor recorded by the Kojiki was "JIMMU" (Divine warrior) who supposedly lived in 7th century BC. The Kojiki mentions Jimmu's military accomplishments and those of his descendants.
First use of the term "Uruwashii":
(a cultured warrior who is accomplished in the way of literary and military arts, represented by the "bun" and "bu")
from the "Heike Monogatari"
"The warrior wore armor laced with light green silk cordsover a twilled silk battle robe decorated with an embroidered design of cranes. On his head was a gold-horned helmet. He carried a sword in a gold studded sheath and a bow bound with red-laquered rattan. his quiver held a set of black and white feathered arrows, the center of each feather bearing a black mark. he rode a dappled gray outfitted

[Steve Williams]

Hello "captain" and welcome to e-budo.

But you should know that you must follow the rules here, no matter how informative your posts are.
Please sign your posts with your full name


Any subsequent unsigned (by your real name, not "Toshiro Mifune") posts will be redited/deleted, no matter how informative or eloquent they may be.
Consider this your first and only warning.

[PRehse]

I don't think its a matter of pro- or anti-samurai especially with regard to the latter where its often a case of being reactionary to the former.

That sounds terrible - its always the other guy but generally speaking the anti- have quite an admiration for the culture but have no fear of interjecting a bit of realism. Personally speaking it makes these guys way more interesting.

Samurai were a class but even within there was a wide range of economic and social status. There were poets and scholars, ruffians and cowards. As often as you can quote written "ideals" there are examples of those same "ideals" tossed out the window.

I do agree that those "ideals" have been expressed over a long period of time although the term bushido is a peacetime construct. Most of those ideals take the form of "house rules", advice to sons, and the preaching of priests. Especially in the latter two cases the advice was routinely ignored (few young men listen to fathers and priests). The question remains as to what point did these ideals become identified with the class and more importantly when, if ever, were they adopted by the majority of that class.

As per Mr. Conlan (the article was interesting) I would assert that a historian that's never wrong is boring. I don't mean that in the popular sense but academic. I suspect in light of new evidence that the man would concede he was in error and would quite rightly contend that the error does not negate his other work.

[Nathan Scott]

I'm short on time, but here are a couple of quick things in response to the Captain's post:


references:

Ideals of the Samurai (1982) - Translated by William Scott Wilson. Every Chapter directly contradicts Conlan's statements. they are the actual writings of the warriors themselves from 1200AD to 1600AD.

Buke No Kakun by Yoshida Yutaka

The message of master Gokurakuji
Hojo Shigetoki (1198-1261AD)

The Chikubasho
Shiba Yoshimasa (1359-1410AD)

The regulations of Imagawa Ryoshun
Imagawa Ryoshun (1325-1420AD)

The 17 articles of Asakura Toshikage
Asakura Toshikage (1428-1481AD)

The 21 precepts of Hojo Soun
Hojo Nagauji (1432-1519AD)

The Recorded words or Asakura Soteki
Asakura Norikage (1474-1555AD)

The Imamizudera monogatari
Takeda Shingen (1521-1573AD)

Opinions in 99 articles
Takeda Nobushige (1525-1561AD)

Lord Nabeshima's Wall Inscriptions
Nabeshima Naoshige (1538-1618AD)

The Last statement of Torii mototada
Torii mototada (1539-1600AD)

The Precepts of Kato Kiyomasa
Kato Kiyomasa(1562-1611AD)

Notes on regulations
Kuroda Nagamasa (1568-1623AD)

Sengoku No Busho by sasaki ginya

For those who may not have recognized it, the above (except for "Sengoku no Busho") are actually the contents of the book "Ideals of the Samurai", which is a translation of the "Buke No Kakun". Much of the other content of the Captain's post is borrowed or adapted from the introduction of the book.

This is an interesting subject, and an interesting post by "Captain Maynard", but I wish the Captain would have been more clear as to what he was posting and what he was quoting (and referencing specifically).

As far as Japanese warriors and bushido, to the best of my knowledge there was no single acknowledged "bushido code" for all the warriors in Japan (!). And while there surely were educated samurai who followed the "Way of Bushido", there were surely a vast majority that were not educated and did not. Just because such writings exist does not mean that everyone followed them.

I'm also surprised that with all these references listed of Bushido writings, that more wasn't written about the Hagakure, Budoshoshinshu, or even the Koyo Gunkan.

Interesting discussion though,

[Arman]

It seems to the extent that the samurai and bushido are romanticized in the vein of chivalric knights, or as simple, equitable tribes folk (a'la The Last Samurai), history pretty well dispels these myths. While there has been a lot of historical interpretation written about the fanatical militarization of Japan in the early 20th century, and how this was a perversion of samurai values, I am of the minority opinion that samurai ethics, in combat, are exactly what you saw during WWII, viz., the brutal and total subjugation of the enemy. It was not uncommon for the victors in a battle in ancient Japan to kill the men and children, and rape the women, and just have generally a barbaric good time. But then, this wasn't all to uncommon among many victorious armies throughout history, regardless of culture or ethnicity. The Japanese just had their own unique expression of the warrior spirit.

That being said, it is a well documented fact that there were rigid codes of conduct, and that honor and shame were powerful forces that worked upon the classical warrior. The very existence and common use and acceptance of seppuku is a testament to this rigid code of conduct that we may call, for lack of a better term, bushido.

There are entire sociological ethnic treatises on this phenomenon in Japanese culture. The unique social organism of the clan, and the way it operated in Japanese culture, is at the root of such patterns of behavior. Bushido is one expression of this social root, and there is little doubt that it not only existed, but that it aslo affected a strong influence upon the samurai (and even the men and women of modern Japan).

But not the romanticized version. (I thoroughly disliked The Last Samurai because of this. The costumes and sets, however, were fabulous)

Best regards,
Arman Partamian

[Jerry Johnson]

Lurking and posting on this board for the many years that I have, this thread voices something I feel isn't discussed well. But rather mentioned here and there in various was. I realize this is a gross generalization, but it seem there are two camps of thought, those who are anti-Samurai and those who aren't. Which in a way is underpinned by reality vs. romanticism of the Samurai culture.

As pointed out in the thread there is a lot of misconceptions and inaccurate information about the samurai in English. Clearly, this happens because Samurai culture is not indigenous to the West. It is something we didn't live, therefore, for the outsider, we romanticize, color and relate to what we know about our culture. This creates the other side of the coin. Those who are, in my opinion, anti-romanticism and not so much anti-Samurai. I often read people jump on others for the mere alluding to what might coming from a romantic point of view,just as what has happen on this thread.

I have been reading in other forums the same thing as here. On person ( Japanese native and martial artist) says the Samurai would never do "X" it would be unacceptable. Then a well noted westerner of training in Japan would denote that as rubbish.

How much of this is really cultural miscommunication. How much of it is some who are really tired of or annoyed by romanticism and how much of it is trying to comprehend something beyond their cultural experience. All of what I just mentioned can do damage to the truth. And the truth is what all of us are struggling to find. This is especially difficult due to the differences in cultures and cultural practices.

I personally, can't say what the truth is. It is important to me as a martial artist of Japanese arts. Mr. Scott touched on something I think is very vital to this thread, and should be considered something worthy to note. That is "there was no single acknowledged "bushido code" for all the warriors in Japan (!). " My point being there was no standard for all Samurai behavior, though behaviors overlap or are shared etc. I say this based on what we know of the Japanese clans. This is fact, and you don't need a Ph.D. to see this, that each clan was obviously different from the next, and yet shared similarities in cultural practices. And clans themselves differ in culture and practices from generation to generation etc. So one can conclude the truth is broader then it is narrower. Core principles, tenets, etc are easily seen and noted. That is Samurai where expected to follow orders, fight, win and die, and beyond that is stylization. Whether you put make up on your face to look good is really unimportant and I am sure there where samurai that where cowards, didn't adhere strongly to honor, or extremist, etc. I am sure some where worthy of setting romantic ideals. Therefore, I feel Mr. Scott's comments are overlooked in the tug-of-war of what was and what wasn't Samurai.

In closing, we can look at those in the old west we have romanticized and demonized those such as the cowboys. Of what we have of the past is snap shots, and what we have of the present is change. Cowboys of the West and that culture no longer serves purpose in today's society. The history of the cowboy is full of myth, legend, hearsay, facts, and idealism. In the inception the cowboy was nothing more then a hired hand who often sat for long hours in a saddle herding a domesticated docile beast on earth. The cowboy's job was to insure money for the cattle owner, and do odd jobs, like putting up fences and mending them. As time moved on the cowboy was romanticized and criticized by those who didn't live the life. The cowboy moved from worker to fancy to singers to urban fashion, to the sportsmen of today. We look back at what the cowboy was, we do it in snap shots, stories, poems, myth and exaggerations, songs, as a way of life and culture that represents more then it was. Which is a hell of allot more interesting then it really was. Cowboying was a hard and lack luster job not taken my many, but by those who needed work and where uneducated and unskilled in craft, who at best sat in a saddle herding docile cattle, and doing allot of manual labor tasks. The cowboy was a servant, an employee, whose intensity of culture and those above him and that of himself lack in comparison to that of a Samurai.

Whether or not the samurai is elevated by romanticism, or demonized by criticized doesn't find us the truth. discussions as such, are exercises of ego and intellect of opinion. Yet, each person reading will digest and make their own determination to what is the truth according to his or her own background and up bring. They will believe and practice as they see fit. As corn-ball and wannabe as it sounds we are looking at the finger pointing to the moon when we debate what the real samurai was like. Fact is who knows. We have a general idea and that is enough. They were all individuals, that served an individual spanning over a long period of time and subjected to change. Their main function was to fight until they died. How they did it and how they were told isn't something we can't paint across the board.

As a result, of the two camps, I have come see that the best service to the Samurai culture as martial artists is to understand it's diversity and individuality, take it simply and in general, staying away from the tug-of-war arguments. We live in different times and places, practicing something that no longer is of it's initial purpose, but has evolved into a means of developing character, and enjoyment. A means that is not so concerned with the truth, or accuracy, but rather gives us an experience that has benefits which have their own truth and accuracy. That is what I feel is the importance.