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cybermaai
11th October 2003, 04:35
I am curious about similarities between Shorinji Kempo and both Hakko ryu, which Kaiso studied, and Daito ryu Aikijujitsu, from which Hakko ryu was derived. I study both Shorinji and Aikido, another Daito ryu offshoot, and find myself often comparing the two.

Is anyone cross-training in either of these arts? Is so, do you see any similarities?

shugyosha
11th October 2003, 12:38
i have train too litle in aikido to have a deep insight but shorinji seems closer to traditional jujutsu than aikido.
a technic obviously from aikijutsu uwa uke zuki.
as for the ju-ho the waza are more direct and simple than in aikido, aikido use wider circle motion following the incoming energy, there is more of a following, and yelding spirit in aikido than in shorinji, in shorinji is more: atemi, break balance, twist and lock down.

David Dunn
12th October 2003, 23:46
Jimi,
a somewhat simplified view of goju ittai :) Mori Sensei used to say that if you require atemi, then you haven't mastered juho.

Anyway it's an interesting question Ted, and one I've thought about many times. Kaiso certainly studied Hakko Ryu, after returning to Japan. It's possibly the origin of seiho being taught as part of the curriculum. It's also entirely possible that the Daito tradition had little influence on Shorinji Kempo. The juho waza may be entirely derived from Kaiso's time in China, he may have studied jujutsu as a younger man. It's one of those gaps that I've always wanted to fill in.

shugyosha
13th October 2003, 09:13
The juho waza may be entirely derived from Kaiso's time in China, he may have studied jujutsu as a younger man. It's one of those gaps that I've always wanted to fill in

i think that juho is more from jujutsu, very few chinese martial art have organised and systematised joint lock technics. joint lock is just a possibility (very unlikely in a real fight) among others


a somewhat simplified view of goju ittai Mori Sensei used to say that if you require atemi, then you haven't mastered juho.
then where is the goju ittai? hmmm this becoming closer the aiki in this way

David Dunn
13th October 2003, 09:28
Originally posted by shugyosha
then where is the goju ittai? hmmm this becoming closer the aiki in this way

That's the extreme end of goju ittai. Mori Sensei meant that you shouldn't rely on atemi to make nage waza etc. Mizuno Sensei used to make us practice the goka ken hokei such as shita uke geri kote nage without the keri. He argued that we shouldn't rely on it, but add it after learning the finer points of the nage.

Mori Sensei was also a master of atemi :laugh: