Ed Martin, 13th Dan

[Kneppy18]

Ok, I know the ranking in Buhinkan Ninjutsu is a little different then in other arts, but I'm having trouble convincing others that he isn't a fake, just because of his ranking. I belong to this other message board, KarateKorner, and started a post about Papa-san Ed Martin because at the time of the post, it seemed a little weird to me that such a "great" teacher would live out on a farm in Pennsylvania. But after some encouragment, I checked the place out. It was amazing. I found out that Mr. Martin was trained directly by Hatsumi sensei and continues to train with him at least once a year. He helps run seminars with Hatsumi and everything, but at this message board, they all say he is a fake because of his high dan ranking. No matter what I say I cannot convince them otherwise (probably because I am a recent addition to the MA community) if anyone can check out the board:
http://www.karatekorner.com/messageboard/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=26&Topic=517
I would appreciate any help I could get to respond to these people. I just feel kinda guilty for allowing them to say these things about my teacher because I started the post.

thanks a lot,
-Aaron Knepp

[Oni]

I added in a note...hope it helps.

[gmarquay]

Aaron,

Try not to worry about what other people think of Ed's "rank". That is between him and Hatsumi Sensei. Having been on the receiving end of some of his very sneaky Kihon Happo, I can testify to the level of his skill. Having had some long discussions with him, both in person and via e-mail, I can testify to his devotion to the Bujinkan, as well as his exemplary character. If you have the opportunity to train under him, run...don't walk to the barn/dojo. You can't go wrong with Papasan.

- Glenn Marquay

[Karyu]

I have trouble believing any serious martial artist would go to a website called "Karate Korner". Sounds like something cute for preschoolers.

And Ed Martin is frickin' awesome at what he does.

[kirigirisu]

Gave the "Korner" a quick once over, and it looks like a gathering place for your typical Hardcore Ultimate Wannabee Martial Ninjer Fighter Warrior guys like the ones that frequent the Ninpo section of Budoseek trying to promote their Baklava Matrix Pitfighting Realm Systems or what not.

Yeah, that's right, I occaisionally pop in to laugh myself silly when things are slow here.

Then again, I'm very easily amused.

Booyakasha! Wicked. Peanut.

[Jay Bell]

Gave the "Korner" a quick once over, and it looks like a gathering place for your typical Hardcore Ultimate Wannabee Martial Ninjer Fighter Warrior guys like the ones that frequent the Ninpo section of Budoseek trying to promote their Baklava Matrix Pitfighting Realm Systems or what not.

Believe me...I feel your pain ;)

As everyone said above...Papa-san's a great guy. He's very good at what he does and has a very common sense approach to training. I do wish, though, that he didn't use the term "Ninjutsu" at every turn. This gives a lot of false impressions to newer students.

[Miuki]

Some of my lasting impressions of Mr Martin:

- Relaxed.
- Effective.
- Hands gnarled as oak and as smooth as a old blues guitarist.
- Treats all the same, regardless of rank or privilege.

A newbie's opinion: 'something' (someone) worth 'aiming' (training) for.

[Kneppy18]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
Believe me...I feel your pain ;)

As everyone said above...Papa-san's a great guy. He's very good at what he does and has a very common sense approach to training. I do wish, though, that he didn't use the term "Ninjutsu" at every turn. This gives a lot of false impressions to newer students.

What exactly do you mean by "use the term "Ninjutsu" at every turn."? Does he miss use it?

-Aaron Knepp

[Jay Bell]

I personally feel that Papa-san puts too much verbal emphasis on "Ninjutsu". It gives the idea to newcomers that they are studying Ninjutsu, when they are not.

[kirigirisu]

Originally posted by Kneppy18
What exactly do you mean by "use the term "Ninjutsu" at every turn."? Does he miss use it?


Newbies don't be studyin' da Ninjutsu straight up first, a'ight?

From what I hear and the idea that I think I'm going to go along with at this point, a good number of people haven't quite got whatever it is Soke's already given them down, so why put more on their plate before they can take it in?

Papasan might know Ninjutsu, but newbies gots to get their basics down first, fashizzle.

I'll leave the speculatin' for the local sewing circles... ;)

[Kneppy18]

ya, ummmm. that didnt really answer my question, but oh well. Mr. Lindsey answered it on another thread. Keep up that english though, maybe someday you'll get it.

-Aaron Knepp

[Jay Bell]

pete lohstroh said:


Ed Martin (who's being disparaged in another thread presently) comes to mind.

Found this wandering around...and felt the need to comment.

No one is disparaging Papa-san. If you actually read my post you could have gathered that. I have nothing but respect for Papa-san. The fact that I don't think calling what is done in the Bujinkan, Ninjutsu is nothing against the man's character or ability.

[pete lohstroh]

Mr.Bell,
point taken, "disparaged" sounds overly harsh. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that Ed misuses the term "ninjutsu".
Period.

[John Lindsey]

Maybe the issue is how each of us interpets ninjutsu. I do not see a need to use the term, since ninpo says it all. Maybe some people have an emotional attachment to the word, for what ever reason. Back in the 1980's everyone seemed to be using ninjutsu rather than ninpo. Since Ed is a product of that generation, maybe he likes to use it...

[Patrick McKee]

If anyone has an issue with an instructor then they should train with that person. Ask questions, propose "what if" scenarios. If that same person can't conveniently make it to training then they should locate someone who can and then get a report from them. That's what I do, at least. Trying to convince people on the Internet of your position(s) is like trying to nail Jello to a tree.

The door is always open at my class,

[Moko]

First off, ignore the Kurotty kuhnobs. They get the teacher they deserve.

Secondly hie they down to Ed's Farm and Budo Paladium. You will find a wonderful teacher there. Not just in some very good physical skills, (But pay attention to the BASICS!) and an good mentor in non-physical lessons.

Ed is very cool. He is a gentleman farmer. He has survived a triple bypass heart surgery. Ask. He'll show you the scar. He has had a tracor roll on him and pin him for hours will no one knew where he was. He was in his 60's when this happened, I think. At the Tennesse TaiKai we were training together and he rolled to do a counter to a technique or something and blew his shoulder out with ME! Ugh. He has amazing mitts. Big and scary and soft, but when they latch onto you they are full of pain. His smile...I'm still out on that. I can't tell if it's beatific or demonic. It's kinda in between. Like he enjoys seeing you squirm but he wants you to learn this lesson.
I have trained with him several times and travel to see him teach. I have brought him into our school in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

You will get the teacher that you deserve.

[GyokkoRyuDeshi]

I have had the pleasure to train with Ed once in Japan and once at Buyu Camp. Ed shared SO MUCH with me..not just about Taijutsu, but life in general. I wouldn't trade the time he shared with me for anything. His wisdom FAR outweighs his rank! And, as for his rank..I couldn't care if he was 9th kyu or 900th dan. He's an amazing person. Period. End of story.



P.S. I'll NEVER get tired of hearing the "Soup Story" :cool:

[campsinger]

Hey, y'all...

I've haven't had the pleasure of training w/ Papa-san, but I have had the pleasure of visiting for a coule hours in a hot tub with him and Abi Allen (wonderful woman). I was priveleged to be awarded the rank of DOM from him. :nw: For those of you who ain't in the know, that stands for Dirty Old Man. I had to settle for a DOM IT (In Training) shirt as he was out of the others (he'd just given the last one to Hatsumi-sensei):D.

One of my favorite quotes is from Papa-san's videos, and goes something like this: "If someone assaults you, what they are really doing is asking you for a lesson. It would be rude to not give them the lesson they have asked for."

Gambatte...

[darkwolf3050]

Hi Kneppy,I train with Papa-San on a weekly basis and Ican tell you he gives you 110% of training,and all he asks for in return is that you take a little knoledge home with you.He is in my mind and a lot of other teachers,a great teacher.Thank You. Michael Ryan

[El Guapo-san]

Two of the four big chomage(Shi Ho Tenno) in Europe teach in pretty out of the way places (Appeldoorn, NL and the Canary Islands). Besides sitting on the plane (not useful for weekely class) or sitting on the train for an hour, it's well worth the time. Never trained with anyone in or from the US, but I imagine that the same lesson applies.

Not to negate the non-shihan, but if you can supplement your normal training with a visit to one who goes or knows Japan well, you're doing yourself a favour.

And know your basics.

J. Vlach, Amsterdam