Bujinkan hip injury?

[Paul Genge]

I have just spent time training systema with Mikhail Ryabko. One of the points he made about the majority of martial arts and especially weight training is that they can cause the joints damage.

He mentioned that if your budo caused you to move with your feet turned out it can cause the hip to becoome over stretched. Eventuallly the hip will deform and cause the joint to wear out.

Prior to training in the System I study the Bujinkan for 10 years. My right hip now clunks every time I lie on my back and do a leg raise. This happens as my legs are on their way back to the floor near the end of the exercise.

Mikhail showed use to do squats with our backs straight and out feet parallel. He said if this is done slowly it will repair the damage. I have been doing this exercise and have found my hips getting steadily better.

Does any other Bujinkan guys have this problem? I think it is because Ichimonji is usually practiced with the right leg bent and foot turned outwards.

Paul Genge

Russian Martial Art Club Oldham, Lancs. (http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk)

[tweety]

Originally posted by Paul Genge
I have just spent time training systema with Mikhail Ryabko. One of the points he made about the majority of martial arts and especially weight training is that they can cause the joints damage.

He mentioned that if your budo caused you to move with your feet turned out it can cause the hip to becoome over stretched. Eventuallly the hip will deform and cause the joint to wear out.

Prior to training in the System I study the Bujinkan for 10 years. My right hip now clunks every time I lie on my back and do a leg raise. This happens as my legs are on their way back to the floor near the end of the exercise.

Mikhail showed use to do squats with our backs straight and out feet parallel. He said if this is done slowly it will repair the damage. I have been doing this exercise and have found my hips getting steadily better.

Does any other Bujinkan guys have this problem? I think it is because Ichimonji is usually practiced with the right leg bent and foot turned outwards.

Paul Genge

Russian Martial Art Club Oldham, Lancs. (http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk)

While the Bujinkan Ichimonji teaches this sort of movement, I think it's more likely that most people's lack of proper structure in their daily lives causes this repeated stress and then subsequent problem. Next time you walk down the street look at everyone's feet, I bet over 95% of people walk with their toes pointed out.
My girlfriend (a massage therapist with Rolfing experience) swears that driving is greatly to blame because of the way our feet operate the pedals. Specifically because of the sheer amount of time most people spend driving.

I'm currently working on correcting my own "tracking". I've found that massage and Feldenkrais work wonders, for me.

Back to the point. I think that every type of movement has it's place, certainly we can't have our feet exactly parallel in every circumstance, but the problems enter when people use incorrect movement for the situation. In other words, I think this is probably not a Bujinkan specific problem, but much wider in scope.

-Steve Kovalcik

[poryu]

Hi paul

if your refering to the lead foot turning outwards while in Ichimonji then its done wrong.

the lead foot should be in line with the whole leg

the thigh and shin should run in line with the knee bent upwards from the ground, rather than bent so that the line of the thigh runs off at a different angle. The foot then should also run in line with the direction of the leg. This all then should if done correct have the toes pointing forwards at the attacker.

If the foot has the toes pointing off at some forward angle away from the linear direction of your opponent then the bone alighnment of the lead leg is all wrong and this not only weakens the strength of the leg while in kamae but puts stress on the hip in a way it should not do. Thus the hip injury will occur over time.

The slightly bent leg is in a way similar to the way a 'Flying Butress' that helps hold up walls on ancient buildings works.

Far too often in the bujinkan the leg alignment is way off, causing future (an present) damage to the joints. It also weakens the kamae considerably.

I suffered from an aching hip for some time until someone pointed (Graham Ramsden) that my leg was not alighed properly. No I know the problem the leg alignment is correct and the hip pain is long gone.

This is a big fault with many practiotners and when you correct them they dont listen and soon go back to the bad kamae.

[Paul Genge]

Paul,

As you will know I have spent plenty of time with Graham and I am well aware of the hip being in line with the knee, and it is the rear foot I am talking about. All I am trying to find out if I just have a dodgy hip or if it is a problem among other bujinkan people.

I have been speaking to a friend who is a physiotherepist. She said that most people should be able to perform exercise with their feet parallel. The only time you could not was if there was a problem with you bodies alignment. This raises the obvious (chicken and the egg question) does the training cause the injury or is the poor alignment of the body causing you to be unable to carry out the exercise.

On the subject of driving causing injuries, a colleague who spent most of his working days sat in a car had lower back problems caused by sitting on his wallet, which was in his back pocket. Over a period of time it caused him all sorts of problems.

I have been doing the slow squats with the body aligned and the feet parallel. This is definately helping and my hips feel a lot more relaxed, but stronger. I wonder if we spend too much time stretching to make our knees and hips go outwards and not enough on working the joints in their natural direction of movement. Only time will tell. I no longer use kamae and I am using Mikhail's exercices which he said will clear the problem.

Paul Genge


http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk

[don]

Originally posted by Paul Genge
...Mikhail Ryabko. One of the points he made about the majority of martial arts and especially weight training is that they can cause the joints damage.

He mentioned that if your budo caused you to move with your feet turned out it can cause the hip to becoome over stretched. ....Does any other Bujinkan guys have this problem? [/URL]

Not to mention all you Yoshinkan guys...