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Margaret Lo
23rd October 2003, 17:40
250 or so from my last blood test.:eek: LDL 160 and HDL 70. My doctor suggested that I add 3 30 min sessions of cardio to my routine. Arrrgh, who has time!! I teach 3 nights for 2 hours each. I think I'll get a heart monitor to wear during class.

To top it off, I'm 42, father had heart attack at 61. I have a pretty darned good diet too, ht 66 inches 137 lbs. I hate the idea of medication and refuse to do the lipitor thing.

How are your tickers/bloodwork?

M

monkeyboy_ssj
23rd October 2003, 17:54
My doctor said i've got a heart of a 21 year old.




Only thing is I'm only 20...

Cady Goldfield
23rd October 2003, 18:11
Margaret,

I'm sorry to hear that. But, some people have naturally high levels. The trait gets passed on because problems don't show up in individuals until later in life, after they've had children.

My mother, now 82 years old, has that tendency, and has been on Lipitor for 6 years, since having a heart attack. She had a stent put in, and went on Lipitor to keep plaque from returning. She also went on a regular exercise routine, and adjusted her diet, though not drastically.

It had a profound effect on her health. The doctor is amazed at how her heart condition has completely reversed itself and is now hormal and strong. Lipitor keeps her cholesterol in perfect alignment - as though she never had a problem.

You're a lot younger, certainly, but it may not be to soon to look into both medical and non-medical ways to adjust cholesterol. I know it is not pleasant to feel dependent on a drug to maintain health, but diabetics, people with bipolar depression, and other conditions make peace with that necessity.

Besides, who can say what lies around the corner in medical discovery? There may be new, exciting options for maintaining cardiovascular health, within the next decade.

Shitoryu Dude
23rd October 2003, 19:00
What do you consider to be a "pretty good diet"?

:beer:

Cady Goldfield
23rd October 2003, 19:50
That's what I was wondering, too.

Margaret Lo
23rd October 2003, 20:04
I eat a close approximation to an ordinary Chinese diet, base of rice, veggies 2x a day most days, probably 4-6 ounces of meat per day mostly pork & chicken. Plenty of fruit nuts, 4-6 drinks per week, snacks 5-6 times a week. The occasional binge w/ a huge steak (5-8 times a year) Since your body manufactures the vast majority of the cholesterol in your body, what little bad stuff I eat and cut out will affect my outcome only a few small percentage points.

I'm just not comfortable w/ medication. High cholesterol is an indirect test and indicates only one risk factor for heart disease. It doesn't mean you actually have heart disease. My homocystine (test for inflammation in the body) came in normal which again is negative for heart issues.

If you have other risk factors: poor diet, obesity, lack of exercise, family members with heart issues in their 50s plus the high cholestrol, then you should take the medication. Plus like your mum Cady, at age 60 onwards, the risk of heart vs. adverse drug side effects start to favor taking the drug.

But if, like me, you don't have these other risks, you are taking a powerful drug with direct action in your body plus possible adverse consequences for your liver, in order to only improve your statistical profile. Is the cure worse than the possible problem?

So, I'm signing up for a stress test to get a closer picture of heart function.

M

Cady Goldfield
23rd October 2003, 20:12
Yes, that's a good point. Lipitor does carry the risk of liver damage. Even my mother monitors herself constantly, and gets blood tests every 6 months. The longer you can put off taking a med like that, the better. But I figure if my 80-plus mother is doing well on it, and it improves and lengthens the quality of her life at this point, then it's a worthwhile chance. You may decide that as well, when you get into your 80s. :)

In the meantime, you may not have much to worry about now, despite that cholesterol reading. Having the high cholesterol in itself may not cause you to have problems down the road, particularly if the other aspects of your lifestyle and health are not suspect.

If you can't lower your cholesterol through diet and more exercise, then maybe the best course is just to monitor your arteries as you get older. Taking Lipitor when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain (i.e. pushin' 80), may be more appealing than it is now, when you're in the prime of life and needing to preserve your organs for the long haul.

Shitoryu Dude
23rd October 2003, 20:28
I would reduce the intake of rice - my wife did that with me a couple years back and it made a dramatic improvement in her blood chemistry.

:beer:

Margaret Lo
23rd October 2003, 20:34
Gosh Harv, reduce my rice intake!! I'm not sure I'm allowed, but I recognize what you're saying about carbs. So how about you guys? Risk factors? Liver, kidney, cancer, high blood pressure, foot in mouth disease?

M

Cady Goldfield
23rd October 2003, 21:01
Margaret,
I'm the same height as you, and weigh 155. I lift and do physical work (gardener-landscaper), and the weight is in muscle, not fat.

My blood pressure is 120/70, cholesterol is low to low average. Both sides of the family have long lives, typically late 80s and 90s, though my mother's side has some hypertension. No osteoperosis, no heart problems, no cancer except lung for a couple of uncles who smoked since the age of 11. No other smokers in the entire family. No drinkers. No drugs.

Come to think of it, we're a freakin' boring bunch. :D

But, I'll probably get hit by a bus or accidentally gut myself during iaijutsu training.

Margaret Lo
23rd October 2003, 21:37
Cady
What a pretty set of genes you have. Looks like driving in Boston is your most deadly risk.

M

Cady Goldfield
23rd October 2003, 21:50
The Cossacks killed off all of the weak ones, I guess. The ones who made it here had to swim across rivers, live in forests and travel by night.

To be serious, though, good genes are a boon, yes, but lifestyle and circumstance have a far stronger influence once you get past a certain point. Genes alone don't assure or doom a future.

Joseph Svinth
24th October 2003, 04:22
You could try my uncle's method. He smoked three packs of unfiltered Camels per day for at least 40 years, drank significantly cheaper grades of booze than does Neil, and today, at 80, has a 60-ish girlfriend...

Brian Owens
24th October 2003, 07:30
Originally posted by Margaret Lo
I eat a close approximation to an ordinary Chinese diet, base of rice, veggies 2x a day most days, probably 4-6 ounces of meat per day mostly pork & chicken. Plenty of fruit nuts, 4-6 drinks per week, snacks 5-6 times a week. The occasional binge w/ a huge steak (5-8 times a year).

Some people need certain nutrients that may be lacking from your diet.

Do you eat much cold water fish? If not, and if you don't want to, try fish oil capsules.

If that doesn't appeal to you try flax seed or flax seed oil supplements.

You should see a nutritionist for specific guidelines on this, but it's a pointer anyway.

Good luck.

Brian Owens
24th October 2003, 07:35
Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
But, I'll probably get hit by a bus or accidentally gut myself during iaijutsu training.

Just what I needed to read before going to bed! Pleasant dreams for me tonight -- NOT!

I'm a transit supervisor (180 bus drivers, and growing), and I'm starting iai soon.

Oh boy!

MarkF
24th October 2003, 10:05
Originally posted by Margaret Lo
I eat a close approximation to an ordinary Chinese diet, base of rice, veggies 2x a day most days, probably 4-6 ounces of meat per day mostly pork & chicken. Plenty of fruit nuts, 4-6 drinks per week, snacks 5-6 times a week. The occasional binge w/ a huge steak (5-8 times a year) Since your body manufactures the vast majority of the cholesterol in your body, what little bad stuff I eat and cut out will affect my outcome only a few small percentage points.

I'm just not comfortable w/ medication. High cholesterol is an indirect test and indicates only one risk factor for heart disease. It doesn't mean you actually have heart disease. My homocystine (test for inflammation in the body) came in normal which again is negative for heart issues.

If you have other risk factors: poor diet, obesity, lack of exercise, family members with heart issues in their 50s plus the high cholestrol, then you should take the medication. Plus like your mum Cady, at age 60 onwards, the risk of heart vs. adverse drug side effects start to favor taking the drug.

But if, like me, you don't have these other risks, you are taking a powerful drug with direct action in your body plus possible adverse consequences for your liver, in order to only improve your statistical profile. Is the cure worse than the possible problem?

So, I'm signing up for a stress test to get a closer picture of heart function.

M


I don't blame you a bit being afraid of going the drug route. Most important to remember that there is no evidence stating statins or other drugs to lower cholesterol lengthens your life span, nor does the Framingham studies discuss this aspect of quality and quantity of life (actually, it does, but drug companies see a dollar sign with every mg/liter your total cholesterol is over 199. It only a study stating lowering your total cholesterol can be achieved. In fact, in the early studies it showed a higher death and morbidity rate from non-cardia disease than the control group. Neither lived longer on average than the other.

Didn't your doctor give you any credit for your level of HDL? While you could stand to lower your LDL, HDL above 35 means more than does a moderate level of total cholesterol. In fact, having such high levels of HDL may cancel out any problems you may have with mild elevation in total cholesterol and may say more about your health than any other total of cholesterol amounts over 220. On top of this, there are certain types of cholesterol not tested in the study, eg, VLDL, MDL, and VHDL.

It may even be more important to your overall health to keep your triglyceride levels as low as possible. High Triglycerides can cause all sorts of problems outside heart problems, such as a full-blown case of pancreatitis, Diabetes Mellitus, and other common health risks later in life.

Lipitor is probably the most effective drug in lowering total cholesterol, but no one really knows whether it would extend life, especially the quality of life, and is probably unnecessary in women over 77 and men over 74. My mother had high total cholesterol most of her life (or when it became a substance thought to be related to heart and circulatory disease), but her HDL was always around 100, her LDL was under 100, and it was her HDL which made the total seem high. But when getting her results, it showed her to have less than half the average risk of heart disease. She passed away early this year at the age of 86 of something totally unrelated to any heart problems. Her brother also died at the age of 86 of unrelated problems. Neither were sick for long when they died.
******

That said, I take Lipitor.;) However, when your total cholesterol is climbing above 1300, and your triglcerides are above 2200, something needs to be done. At the same time, I changed my diet severly, lost weight, and at my last check up my total cholesterol was 165. As Lipitor and other statins like it can lower both types of fats in the blood it isn't responsible for more than twenty percent of that, and I'm being liberal in giving it that much credit. My triglyceride level is at 225, according to the reference ranges (these levels only show the average of the American public so having high or low serum fats is compared only to that reference range) and still says it is too high. My Irish doctor didn't, though, and I was ecstatic. Normally, that is too high, but my serum levels dropped so dramatically, that my dosage was cut in half, and by my next checkup I should be off of that med.


I think you are doing fine, Margaret. Your diet is fine, your blood fats are not outrageous, so IMO, you needn't worry about it. Worry and other stress in life does far more harm than slight elevations of cholesterol.

Drugs lowering cholesterol have yet to be proven to do anything but lower blood fat levels, and one risk of heart disease. No proof exists that it does anything else. Those over 80 do not need these drugs, but I fill hundreds of orders for them every day for seniors.

What can you do? The best you can, I suppose, but the only people gaining a lot over the consumption of these drugs are the drug companies. Psycholocially speeking, though, it may help maintain a less stressful life when looking at the numbers, if it affects you be seeing or knowing that. I've been told my cholesterol now is too low. The window is supposed to be 175 to 199.

You are probably too young to be worried about it and I think you have a much better attitude about it. But 70 mg./liter of HDL will protect you from most coronary/circulatory problems. Keep your BP down, and you'll live a long and fruitful life.


Good health to you!


Mark

PS: Rice is not the culprit and diet should be moderately heavy in a healthy diet. You just need to eat the right ones, IMO.

Cady Goldfield
24th October 2003, 14:51
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
But, I'll probably get hit by a bus or accidentally gut myself during iaijutsu training.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just what I needed to read before going to bed! Pleasant dreams for me tonight -- NOT!

I'm a transit supervisor (180 bus drivers, and growing), and I'm starting iai soon.

Oh boy!

__________________
Yours in Budo,
Brian C. Owens



Look at it this way, Brian,
At least your likelihood of dying from stroke or cancer will be hugely reduced!

Cady Goldfield
24th October 2003, 15:01
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MarkF
I don't blame you a bit being afraid of going the drug route. Most important to remember that there is no evidence stating statins or other drugs to lower cholesterol lengthens your life span, nor does the Framingham studies discuss this aspect of quality and quantity of life (actually, it does, but drug companies see a dollar sign with every mg/liter your total cholesterol is over 199. It only a study stating lowering your total cholesterol can be achieved. In fact, in the early studies it showed a higher death and morbidity rate from non-cardia disease than the control group. Neither lived longer on average than the other. SNIP

Really nice post, Mark. Good info.

Marc Renouf
24th October 2003, 15:16
Concerning quality of life, my father was taking Lipitor shortly after his (mild) heart-attack at age 51. Actually, they're not even really sure he had a heart attack, and he didn't show signs of the enzyme until after they had roto-rootered him. Be that as it may, it was a wake-up call. High cholesterol and heart disease runs in the family, so they had him exercise more, change his diet, and put him on Lipitor.

After about four months he had to stop taking it because it made him evil. He was crotchety all the time, he got really short-tempered, and it messed with his sleep patterns. After he stopped taking it, the problems vanished. He said that now he knows how my mom felt during PMS all those years - intellectually he knew that there was no reason for him to be angry and moody, but he just couldn't help himself.

I am extremely skeptical of medication. In addition to being expensive and directly supporting the (largely immoral) drug companies, the human body is an exceedingly complex system, and pulling knobs and pushing levers chemically can have some pretty drastic unintended consequences.

Margaret Lo
24th October 2003, 15:24
Thanks for the details Mark. I do realize that with the numbers, my doctor can't help but prescribe some treatment. I mean what if I drop dead in a year? From the liability point of view, it would look negligent if she didn't try to tell me to take something.

That's something to always remember with doctors, they'll overtreat you rather than look like they were negligent. If you have a side effect from the drugs, its not their liability, it's the drug company's problem!

I will put in more aerobic exercise, buy a heart monitor for running, eat more oat bran etc... Has anyone heard if cutting out coffee lowers LDL?

M

Cady Goldfield
24th October 2003, 15:36
I haven't heard or read of any role coffee might play in cholesterol levels. But give researchers time. Someone will find some link... ;)

I'd say go ahead and enjoy your coffee. In moderation, of course, like everything else. :D

Monosaturated fats and oils, such as olive oil, have been shown to have positive effects on maintaining "good" cholesterol, as have Omega fatty acids, such as those found in salmon and tuna.

Sunndew
24th October 2003, 17:37
My husband has high triglyceride levels. He was put on medication for 3 months that droped his triglyceride levels down to the double diggets range but the doctor said his live looked like he had been drinking 24/7 for the past 3 months. He was told to stop taking the meds and to see if the change in diet and exercise helped. Along with the diet and exercise change he started taking Fish Oil and Slow Release Nicain. His levels went up some but it was not a drastic incease.

Going through this with my husband I can honestly say that the best thing is diet and exercise along with a couple of supplements. He is in great shape now and has lost close to 50lbs. I changed the way I cook (note: not the foods we eat, just they way they are prepared) and started exercising with him. In the process I have lost 15lbs and 4 dress sizes.

Just so you will know the diet consist of very little junk food, minimal sugars, minimal booze and cut out 95% of fired foods. He eats a bowl of oatmeal every morning for breakfast and if he gets the munchies he snacks on carrots or something of that sort. It is an easy diet and I really didnt have to change much in the way were eating but the small changes I have made have help.

Good luck to you.

Marc Renouf
24th October 2003, 22:11
Slow-release Niacin is bad for your liver too, but at least it doesn't give you hot flashes.

Cut out 95% of your fried foods? But you live in the South! How is that possible!?! ;)

MarkF
25th October 2003, 11:16
Slow-release Niacin is bad for your liver too, but at least it doesn't give you hot flashes.


Sure, if you take it in huge quantities, such as taking too much vit. A in the form of fish liver oils (Cod liver oil, etc)., but up to 1500 mg./day shouldn't do any harm. Certainly, it is better than taking prescribed drugs for management of serum fats, and it does work for many with slight increases of cholesterol (up to 240). It should be the first defense against rising blood fat if diet hasn't helped, or in smaller quantities of Niacin (Vit. B-3) several times daily. Actually, cutting back on the flush nicotinic acid gives you works against the reason for taking it.

The flush opens peripheral arteries which could be blocked enough to cause PAD and allows blood to flow in the cutaneous areas of the layers of skin unblocking the arterioles. That is why you feel the flush.

This may seem wrong, but that effect also can help you sleep. Take it just before climbing into the sack and you should wake feeling rested and alive, if not a bit blotched in the morning.


Mark

Sunndew
13th November 2003, 21:01
Originally posted by MarkF
This may seem wrong, but that effect also can help you sleep. Take it just before climbing into the sack and you should wake feeling rested and alive, if not a bit blotched in the morning.


Mark

Thank you for this information. Kurt and I have been taking it at night now and it really has helped us sleep better.

Kriss
22nd July 2004, 06:21
Well, a traditional cure to decrease cholesterol are apples. Could not harm if you eat two or three apples daily. Beware of sugar (bottled soda) and alcohol. Add some brown bread to your diet. Switch from pork to fish.
Walk, ride a bicycle or go to the swimming-pool when you have time (at least walk 30 minutes everyday). Physical exercice helps to balance good and bad cholesterol. Don't forget to drink enough water, 1.5 liter/ day is OK.

It will take 6 months of exercice and diet to notice a durable change in your blood chemistry.

I am 45 and share the same concern. ;)

MarkF
22nd July 2004, 11:25
There is usually something behind sayings such as "An apple a day keeps the doctor away."

Apple pectin is the substance which reportedly has a beneficial effect on cholesterol levels and it can be bought in tablet and capsule form for taking large quantities, generally, about 600 mg three times daily with food is thought to clear some cholesterol from the blood. Regular yogurt consumers also show lower levels of cholesterol.

Taken with a moderate amount of Niacin (Vitamin B3), it just may help a person with borderline elevation of total cholesterol (around 240 mg/liter).


Mark

Harlan
22nd July 2004, 15:23
Every female in my family has battled weight, and associated problems
such as adult diabetes, high cholesterol and eventually heart disease.
Siblings, mother, grandmother, great-grandmother...you get the picture. It's genetic. Lipitor, as well as several stints and now heart surgury has my mother at 70% and she is happy for the extra time.

However, I was damned if I was going to go that way. Pick up a copy of "Protein Power" by the Dr. Eades. If you don't have to lose weight it will still tell you about the connection between high cholesterol, carbohydrates and insulin cycle.

Does it work? Yes. Lost 70 lbs, am off of the drugs, and my post-fasting stats are:

Glucose 80
Cholesterol 159
HDL 77
LDL 73
Triglycerides 43
Chol/HDL Ratio 2.06

Pretty good for 40 plus!!

Chrono
22nd July 2004, 16:46
Originally posted by monkeyboy_ssj
My doctor said i've got a heart of a 21 year old.


You sure he didn't say it was a 21 year old monkey? :D

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I'm 20 years old, too, so I don't think I'm having to deal with those problems...yet.

Nanban Bushi
2nd August 2004, 12:49
Originally posted by Margaret Lo
250 or so from my last blood test.:eek: LDL 160 and HDL 70. My doctor suggested that I add 3 30 min sessions of cardio to my routine. Arrrgh, who has time!! I teach 3 nights for 2 hours each. I think I'll get a heart monitor to wear during class.

To top it off, I'm 42, father had heart attack at 61. I have a pretty darned good diet too, ht 66 inches 137 lbs. I hate the idea of medication and refuse to do the lipitor thing.

How are your tickers/bloodwork?

M

Hello Margaret,

I last had my bloodwork done just about a year ago and my figures were:

Total Cholesterol 170

LDL 106

HDL 38

Tricglycerides 132

As you can see, everything is within normal range, aside from the HDL, which is on the low side. I attribute this to stress (which can supposedly lower HDL), since my mother was in a nursing home at the time, deteriorating with Alzheimer's and congestive heart failure (she passed away in August of '03).

In regards to your situation, your diet seems fine, aside from perhaps that "base" of rice (I assume white rice, since you didn't specify otherwise). You might consider switching to brown rice, which has a lower Glycemic Index than white rice (high Glycemic carbs have been implicated in negative changes to HDL and small-dense LDL).

Peace,

David

corsarius
9th August 2004, 05:30
I read recently that a mediterranean diet is the most effective at reducing cholesterol levels: apparently to do with the high quantities of olive oil and garlic in their cooking - not that I'm advocating you change your entire diet, but giving your diet mediterranean influence, in conjunction with exercise etc. you may be able to eliminate any thought of medication entirely (with time and appropriate medical supervision, of course).

Just a thought.

Brian Owens
9th August 2004, 09:46
Originally posted by corsarius
I read recently that a mediterranean diet is the most effective at reducing cholesterol levels: apparently to do with the high quantities of olive oil and garlic in their cooking...
There is a great deal of research to back that up.

And it's not just the olive oil and garlic; adding those to a diet made up of Big Macs and milkshakes wouldn't do much.

The meditteranian diet is high in complex carbohydrates like rice, bulghur, beans, and lentils, and low in fats, with most of those from olive oil. Vegetables outweigh meat on the plate by a considerable margin.

The Atkins people won't like it, but except for the Okinawan diet it's the healthiest known so far.

gmlc123
9th August 2004, 11:54
Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
The Atkins people won't like it, but except for the Okinawan diet it's the healthiest known so far.

"The Japanese government says the people of Okinawa live longer than the residents of any other city in the world thanks to their diet of stir-fried SPAM"

FYI.. http://members.tripod.com/okinawa_island/ :D

Brian Owens
9th August 2004, 12:16
Originally posted by gmlc123
"The Japanese government says the people of Okinawa live longer than the residents of any other city in the world thanks to their diet of stir-fried SPAM" :D
:laugh: I love a good spoof. Too bad the authors of this one didn't know that Okinawa is a prefecture, not a city. Oh well, it's still funny.

For any who are actually interested, the book The Okinawa Program has an extensive section on the Okinawan diet, and easy to find substitutes for Americans.

The book is massive, and contains a lot of dry statistics and case study summaries; but if you can wade through it all there's a lot of good to be had.

Maybe someday I'll condense all the information, liven it up a bit, and write my own book to compete with Dr. Atkin's Diet Revolution. Maybe I'll get rich, too. :D

Nanban Bushi
9th August 2004, 14:01
Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi

For any who are actually interested, the book The Okinawa Program has an extensive section on the Okinawan diet, and easy to find substitutes for Americans.

The book is massive, and contains a lot of dry statistics and case study summaries; but if you can wade through it all there's a lot of good to be had.

Brian,

How much fish do Okinawans actually eat--ie., how many times per week do they consume fish, and/or what percentage does it make up in their diet?

Thanks,

David

DYUSAN
9th August 2004, 17:10
Margaret, Add some oatmeal to your diet. Leave out the processed sugars if you can't eat it plainand add honey. Seem to have helped me.

Brian Owens
9th August 2004, 21:55
Originally posted by Nanban Bushi
How much fish do Okinawans actually eat--ie., how many times per week do they consume fish, and/or what percentage does it make up in their diet?
Wouldn't you know, I loaned the book to my sister.

I don't want to go out on a limb and make a potentially wrong guess so I can't say precisely, but I seem to remember that it was more than most Americans eat.

If I get the book back, or if I find a reference on the 'net or something, I'll try to remember to get back to you.


Originally posted by DYUSAN
Margaret, Add some oatmeal to your diet. Leave out the processed sugars if you can't eat it plainand add honey. Seem to have helped me.
I agree about oatmeal, disagree about honey. Honey is a processed sugar (levulose?), it was just processed by bees. Tastes good (to me, anyway), but has not been demonstrated to be "healthier" than sucrose (table sugar), AFAIK.

Nanban Bushi
10th August 2004, 13:21
Brian,


Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
Wouldn't you know, I loaned the book to my sister.

I don't want to go out on a limb and make a potentially wrong guess so I can't say precisely, but I seem to remember that it was more than most Americans eat.

If I get the book back, or if I find a reference on the 'net or something, I'll try to remember to get back to you.

I appreciate it--in the meantime, I'll Google around and see what I can find. :)



I agree about oatmeal, disagree about honey. Honey is a processed sugar (levulose?), it was just processed by bees.

Honey is actually composed of about 25 diffferent sugars, of which levulose is only one.


Tastes good (to me, anyway), but has not been demonstrated to be "healthier" than sucrose (table sugar), AFAIK.

I would disagree, if only because it is known that honey has both antioxidant and antimicrobial properties. Much like other foods that are antioxidants (green vegetables, red wine, etc), the power of honey is related to its color--ie., the darker the variety, the more powerful an antioxidant it is.

Don't get me wrong--honey is still sugar, and it should be used sparingly. Only about 100 years ago, the average Westerner consumed about 20lbs of sugar a year.

That number is currently a staggering 250lbs now! :(

Peace,

David

Brian Owens
10th August 2004, 22:43
Originally posted by Nanban Bushi
...it is known that honey has both antioxidant and antimicrobial properties. Much like other foods that are antioxidants (green vegetables, red wine, etc), the power of honey is related to its color--ie., the darker the variety, the more powerful an antioxidant it is.
True, which is why it doesn't go bad when left unrefrigerated for long periods. (Table sugar doesn't, because it doesn't contain significant amounts of water.)

However in order for a person to get a significant amount of the antioxidants, he would have to consume quantities of honey that would be unhealthy.

As part of a healthier diet, it it makes you feel better go for it, but considering the cost of honey vs. sugar (unless you have your own hives), I wouldn't sweat it. Best to cut back on all refined sugars.

Nanban Bushi
11th August 2004, 11:28
Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
As part of a healthier diet, it it makes you feel better go for it, but considering the cost of honey vs. sugar (unless you have your own hives), I wouldn't sweat it. Best to cut back on all refined sugars.

As I said, honey is still sugar, and so I concur with you on this overall issue.

Peace,

David

gmlc123
21st August 2004, 07:22
Thought some might find this an interesting read..

http://www.bcbsnm.com/haw/news/news04_live_to_100.htm

Mekugi
21st August 2004, 08:11
Your uncle needs a medal.


Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
You could try my uncle's method. He smoked three packs of unfiltered Camels per day for at least 40 years, drank significantly cheaper grades of booze than does Neil, and today, at 80, has a 60-ish girlfriend...

BTW, Margaret, how much MSG do you eat? How about oils for cooking? Just curious.

Mekugi
21st August 2004, 08:16
From gmlc's link


Goya: this bitter marrowlike vegetable, a mainstay of the diet, is said to be an aphrodisiac for men and has high levels of vitamin C. Western alternative: zucchini, marrow, or squash.

There is no alternative to Goya. Goya Champo is SO the bomb.

gmlc123
21st August 2004, 09:23
Here's another link to more info on Goya.. for those interested...

http://www1.ourtokushima.net/kankyou/seikatsubunka/awalife/june02/goodgoya.htm

Brian Owens
21st August 2004, 10:04
Originally posted by Nanban Bushi
How much fish do Okinawans actually eat--ie., how many times per week do they consume fish, and/or what percentage does it make up in their diet?

Originally posted by gmlc123
Thought some might find this an interesting read..

http://www.bcbsnm.com/haw/news/news04_live_to_100.htm
Wow, excellent site. Thanks Greg!

Good summary of the essentials.

And from that site came the answer to David's question:

"Freshly caught fish: eaten two or three times a week, it's a good source of omega 3 essential fatty acids."

They don't say what quantity, but it's probably 6 - 8 ounces per serving.

I also found this statistic to be interesting, and wonder how the Atkins fans and other carbophobes would react to it:

"Hunza inhabitants eat around 1,900 calories a day, including 50g protein, 36g fat (mainly essential fats of vegetable origin) and 354g carbohydrates."