View Full Version : Creatine

28th October 2003, 17:14
Dear members. I have some doubts whether or not to use creatine monohydrate supplementation in my daily diet, when not eating bulky red meat food regularly. Is a moderatly strenous karate training an exercise that relies heavily on the phosphagen energy system or not? Creatine is usually more adviced to weightlifters and sprinters. How is with the employment of C-vitamin and minerals during karate, is it more toilsome on the muscles than body-building or not? The difference is anaerobic/aerobic, I know, but which one is actually more "tissue-tearing"? If anyone is familliar with this physiological question please let me know. What does the science sayz?

Thank you very much. This here is a great, valuable forum I've been reading at.

Andrej Dezman

The best things and best people rise out of their separateness; I'm against a homogenized society because I want the cream to rise.
--Robert Frost (1874-1963) American poet

28th October 2003, 18:57
I'm not familiar with the 'phosphagen energy system' term, but it seems that you have done at least some research on the subject.
The creatine phosphate system, alike other anaerobic systems, is a rapid burst, short term energy source for muscles. It provides an additional 5-7 seconds of maximum muscle contraction (power) after the muscle 'runs out' of ATP, which is first used up to provide about 3 secs of max. Altogether the lactate and creatine systems provide around 10 secs of "oxygen-free" energy. That's why it's (the creatine phosphate system) mostly used in activities that require explosive bursts of energy, such as weightlifting that you mentioned already.
Creatine also increases the size of the muscle by altering the fluid balance of the cells.
If your question is if "moderately strenuous" karate workout relies more on the creatine system, I would say yes. Activites with fluctuating active and less active phases, such as karate, have to depend on the rapid supply of energy from the creatine phosphate system, because there isn't enough time to produce ATP by aerobic respiration during the active phases, and the ATP stored in the muscles runs out after only a few seconds.
When the muscle is made to grow in body-building, the muscle is torn, and new muscle cells are formed in the middle. Creatine is not only needed to increase the concentration of the substance in the old and new cells, but to provide energy that can be used to further exhaust the muscle. The more exhausted, the better for muscle growth. Although there is a difference between tearing of muscle to induce growth and damage to muscles resulting from tearing of muscle, body building aims at growing muscle and therefore tearing muscle, and can therefore be considered more toilsome to the muscles. However, in combative sports the risk of muscle damage is always high, especially during physical contact, where the tearing of muscle is not controlled.

I'll have to get back to this with more time in case you don't get expert help on it. I already feel I'm repeating myself :). I use creatine because of my weight training program, but can't say it's done any harm in what comes to martial arts workouts. Hope this helped a bit; I'm sure somebody with more knowledge on the subject can help you with all the questions you had.


29th October 2003, 19:45
Very clarifying, thank you.
Then what if I overdose with creatine, regarding specific body mass, training activity, what if I surplus the demands? Could this be a potentially harmful substance if I don't use it all taken in?
The other after tough training I took a full measure of it with 6x RDA vitamin C and some chromium and I was feeling a bit insecure.

Pete Knox
30th October 2003, 05:24
If you are going to take Creatine, be sure to ingest a lot of water, as part of what supposedly makes Creatine effective is allowing the water in your body (on the cellular level) to be used more effectively, as Chiburi mentioned in the excellent post above. The added water also helps counteract any stress your kidneys may get from the added Creatine (the jury is still out on this, so it is up to you, but I would be more safe than sorry). I would also recommend checking with you physician to rule out any kidney problems before trying it. I took Creatine for a bit, but stopped because I was sick of peeing all of the time due to the extra water I was drinking. ;) If you can handle that, go ahead - while nothing synthetic can ever be assumed to be 100% safe, Creatine is quite possibly the most heavily researched substance in the history of sport nutritionals.

Also, keep in mind that if you are doing typical karate training, including the conditioning exercises often done in class (pushups, situps, etc.), as well as bag work, you are in fact engaging in resistance training just like a weightlifter or bodybuilder - you are just using your bodyweight as resistance, as well as the occasional apparatus (bag or makiwara). Your body doesn't know whether you are using weights, bands, or your own bodyweight, and it doesn't care. If you put the muscle under stress, it will respond accordingly. Therefore, when using Creatine, don't think of yourself any differently than a weightlifter or bodybuilder would.

30th October 2003, 08:39
I was going to take creatine at one time. It was something my brother took when he was weightlifting. His suggestion that I could increase my stamina seemed a good idea to me.

But the only down fall is that it is suggested that one does not take any alcohol during the period of taking the creatine as the muscules also absorb that too...

So on that basis, I refused to take it.