Kihon Happo, Help!

[Sunu Eagure]

I was wondering if anyone could clear this up for me:
What are the Kihon Happo? Here's my impression: The Kihon Happo are a collection of eight techniques; the first three, Koshi Senpo Waza, includes the ichimonji, jumonji and hicho no kamaes. The remaining five, the Torite Goho; are Omotegyaku dori, Uragyaku dori Gansekinage, Onikudaki and Musha Dori...
or is it Muso Dori, Omote Gyaku Tsuki, Omote Gyaku, Ura Gyaku and Ganseki Nage?
or maybe Omote gyaku, Ura Gyaku, Oni kudaki, Uchi maki dori, and Ganseki nage?
(Gansekinage and Muso Dori are simialar? What am I doing wrong?!)

Any clarifications would be greatly appreciated.

Dainichi Inuwashi

[kage110]

I suspect you are going to get lots of answers to the effect of 'ask your shidoshi' so be warned! Other than that, sorry, can't help you.:rolleyes:

[MakotoDojo]

I suspect you are going to get lots of answers to the effect of 'ask your shidoshi' so be warned!

I have been doing the online thing since late 1996. In my opinion, I think what has happend is that questions like these have been asked SO many times alrteady, I remember HUGE threads on Ninpo-l lasting a few days or more just about kihon Happo, people would take good posts and put them on web sites etc. there was ALLOT of sharing back then!

People would almost freely give out their notes from seminars or Japan or their own research, Paul Richardson I know would do so often, but has gotten burned more than once if his research was incorrect even though he said it was just his research, also people taking his notes and selling them. These things started happening allot with people not just him.

I know that from 96 until about 98 maybe 99 Information flowed freely, allot of people were new to these forums and mailing lists and it was wonderful, all of a sudden people from around the world could share what they new with a few key strokes.\

But we have all learned since then. We have lerned to take with a grain of salt what is passed around online, because often it is incorrect information. We have learned that people will take our hard won information and use it to bolster their claims of long dead lineages, we have seen people make money from our notes with out giving us any cut.

Anyway, questions about kihon happo san shin etc have been talked about SOOO much, what else can be said? Even on e-budo, do a search on the kihon happo, look on the web and of course ask you teacher.

Gassho,

[doraemon]

the first three, Koshi Senpo Waza, includes the ichimonji, jumonji and hicho no kamaes. The remaining five, the Torite Goho; are Omotegyaku dori, Uragyaku dori Gansekinage, Onikudaki and Musha Dori...

ichimonji, jumonji and hicho no KATA
Omote Gyaku, Ura Gyaku, Ganseki Nage, Oni Kudaki and Musha Dori.

If you can do all those 8 and understand them, and where they differ and coalesce, and do them regularly, you could probably kick my butt. :D

As it is, with those and Juppo Sesshou....You probably have a very servicable core for a martial art.

[Mr.Franco]

The way I interpret the Kihon Happo is like this: The Kihon Happo serves as a fundamental skill needed to understand Kata which are in the Jin Ryaku No Maki (as well as other kata from the other Ryu Ha). The Kihon Happo is not a meathod of defending one self per-se. It is a method of understanding timing, angle, distance, joint manipulation, throws, strikes, etc. which are needed in order to understand the Kata (from the Jin no Maki & the Ryu-Ha) and what it is they are teaching.

The Kihon Happo which I practice/teach is:

Koshi Sanpo

-Ichimonji No Kata
-Hicho No Kata
-Jyumonji No Kata

Torite Kihon Happo

-Omote Gyaku
-Ura Gyaku
-Muso Dori
-Oni Kudaki
-Ganseki Nage

Be well,
Mark

[Mr.Franco]

"
Torite Kihon Happo
sorry! Should say "Torite Kihon Kata"

[Sillal]

If you want a good resource for this check out Phil Legare's GOGYO NO KATA & KIHON HAPPO video. He goes through the full Kihon Happo along with counters.

[Jay Bell]

If you want a good resource for this check out Phil Legare's GOGYO NO KATA & KIHON HAPPO video. He goes through the full Kihon Happo along with counters.

At the same time, you have to ask yourself what such knowledge gives you. Knowing what "the eight" are...does it help you in the long run or does it create boundries within your training?

[doraemon]

Fundamentals are what they are.
Some people want scenarios....played out "ad infinitum".
Running lots of scenarios won't neccessarily get peoples as far, or farther than running fundamentals and slight variations "ad infinitum."
It just depends on the imagination and the wiring of the individual.

Par Example.....Kihon Happo.
striking.......
-defensive-inside
--responsive-inside
---aggressive-inside
(Outside is a no brainer, but because it freaks the opponent; it's often better to stay inside, just out of their weapon range, and draw them into trouble. You can always go outside once they can't walk.)

twisting.....
----drop them back facing their rear
-----drop them forward facing their front


------drop them back facing their rear
-------drop them back facing their front
--------drop them forward facing their front

tah dah!!!!!!!!!!!!

A suitable series of variations in the plane that is the most difficult to work with because the opponent is nearly always equal with you vertically. The martial artist has to suppress the opponents movement and "work them" to control with timing, distance and rhythm superiority. Mostly keeping their center just below yours so they move less and are more subject to your will. Chipping away or blasting through. All Case by case.
- - - - - - -
Then Juppou Sesshou.
Simple effective kata leading to more realistic natural movement.
No stopping. :D

[poryu]

Hi

In the ten ryaku no maki (Tenchijin Ryaku No Maki) the kihon happo is listed as such

Kihon Happo Gata

Koshi Kihon Sanpo

Migi Ichimonji no kamae (says also do it on the left)
Migi Hicho no Kamae (says also do it on the left)
Migi Jumonji

Torite Kihon Kata Goho
Torite Kihon Kata

the 5 kata are not named just numbered 1 - 5

but reading the description they are known to us as

Omote gyaku
Omote Gyaku Henka/Tsuki
Ura Gyaku
Musha Dori
Ganseki Nage

Oni Kudaki is not in the Kihon Happo any more. It was at one time part of the kihon happo used prior to tenchijin being written but then the kihon happo was constantly changing. From my travels I have found it is Oni Kudaki is really only used in the States now, most of Europe uses the Tenchijin version with Ganseki Nage

[Sillal]

At the same time, you have to ask yourself what such knowledge gives you. Knowing what "the eight" are...does it help you in the long run or does it create boundries within your training?

The dude wanted to know what the Kihon was and looked like, so the video would show him what they were and looked like...

[DWeidman]

Originally posted by Sillal
The dude wanted to know what the Kihon was and looked like, so the video would show him what they were and looked like...

The "dude" (since he uses a crap name out here) knows how to spell them, so I assume he has seen them. If he hasn't seen them - then the video mentioned above might as well be of a ballet class for all the good it will do him.

If he wanted an answer to the question (meaning he was looking for WHICH combination of the 8 are the "right" ones) - Paul gave the most accurate answer. And it is alluded that the 8 seem to be 9 or 10 that are randomly whittled down to 8 by whoever is teaching.

-Daniel Weidman
San Diego Bujinkan TenChiJin Dojo

[Sillal]

Blah, blah, blah, don't you just love the internet...