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EmreDikici
17th November 2003, 02:18
Hey Guys,
On November 30, on Discovery Channel, there is a new show titled "Extreme Martial Arts". On Discovery's web page there are some interesting video clips. Especially the animations are cool.
I thought you might want to check it out.:)

Here is the page.

http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/xma/video/video.html

Soulend
17th November 2003, 03:24
The shirtless guy demonstrating iai kata in slo-mo with what looks suspiciously like a wallhanger is so sexy. I suppose an attempt to take your mind off of the singularly stupid and melodramatic commentary.

On another note, will anyone else be glad when we finally get over this fad of calling everything "extreme"?

TenguAteMyPuppy
17th November 2003, 03:39
You know it's extreme cause they spelled "Xtreme."

That's totally "Xtreme!!!"

Chrono
17th November 2003, 03:53
Sounds like it's worth a look. I took the quiz, though, and got a 70. At least I know some of the stuff.

Jon

Shitoryu Dude
17th November 2003, 05:57
I blame it all on marketing campaigns aimed at would-be teen athletes who spent all their time on skateboards and playing video games.

:beer:

charlesl
17th November 2003, 08:36
The second video shows a choreographed fight between a couple of guys. One of the things I noticed was when the uh, reddish-yellowish-orange guy threw a roundhouse kick at the blue guys head, the blue guy just slapped it back with the forearm. Supposedly these animated segments are based on a real choreographed (uh, probably those two words shouldn't be together) fight, but I haven't done much chop-sockey stuff, is that possible, something people think they can really do? (btw, the section with the kick is in the last five or so seconds)

And then there's the katana segment (ur, Samurai sword katana segment). It's good to know that there are only four elements to the kata: drawing the sword, precise cuts, shaking the blood from the blade, and returning it to the saya. Those guys who think that maai, zanshin, riai, and timing are factors are obviously delusional.

-Charles Lockhart

Martyn van Halm
17th November 2003, 08:57
Originally posted by Soulend
The shirtless guy demonstrating iai kata in slo-mo with what looks suspiciously like a wallhanger is so sexy. I suppose an attempt to take your mind off of the singularly stupid and melodramatic commentary.
And to distract from the fact that he raises his right elbow too high when drawing the sword, providing an opportunity for the opponent to perform ikkyo [or a variation thereof] and pin this bonehead to the floor.

But, yes, it looks very butch.

Must score high points with the babes. And the gay community.

Iain
17th November 2003, 08:59
look out! It's 'Xtreme'! These guys probably do no holds barred, free style, kung-fu bungee jumping! Don't mess with the Xtreme!

Jesus. What kind of looser peddles his art like this? I'm not against a little bit of a flashy demonstration to impress the unwashed masses and bring in some coin, but 'Xtreme'ing something takes it to an all-new low. Besides, I was reading one of the bios... Black Belt hall of fame? Now stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't that thing a gigantic joke?

TenguAteMyPuppy
17th November 2003, 09:59
I took the quiz, though, and got a 70.

I got 100. I bet that makes me like ...30 times more "Xtreme!" than you! :eek:

Martyn van Halm
17th November 2003, 20:23
Second time around I got a 100 too.

Chrono
17th November 2003, 21:38
Originally posted by TenguAteMyPuppy
I got 100.

You probably cheated.

Jon

TenguAteMyPuppy
17th November 2003, 21:52
I only cheat on real tests.:(

Shitoryu Dude
17th November 2003, 21:59
Yeah, the "black belt hall of fame" is a fraud and a joke. Who would actually want to be on such a thing? Insecure little dweebs who want to mightily impress the yokels I must assume.

Yeesh!

:beer:

gendzwil
17th November 2003, 22:35
I'd of gotten 100 if I'd been allowed to correct the answers. Verifiable 4000 year history my !!!.

Mekugi
18th November 2003, 00:58
This isn't extreme unless they are planning on fighting sharks (in the water) or performing Jackie Chan super jump kicks over trains...on skateboards.

;)

-Russ

Soulend
18th November 2003, 01:06
I got a 90, first try - I am like, 12 kinds of Xtreme!

FastEd
18th November 2003, 01:30
Well that Iai demo was pretty shameful, I wonder who thought THAT was good idea. On second thought, its the discovery channel, I guess I should'nt be surprised.

Earl Hartman
18th November 2003, 01:31
Looked at the iai clip.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's extreme all right.

Extremely stupid.

You call that a quiz?

It is to laugh.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mekugi
18th November 2003, 09:15
Man that sucked. I mean really sucked.

I have seen my eight year old do better after watching samurai dramas on TV.

What is wrong with this guy?

My reaction was as follows:

1) OK...no shirt...Kung Fu comfy pants...wahteva...

2) Hmm...reiho...little strange but...OK at least they did it.

3) OK reaching for the sword, real obvious...HEY LOOK AT ME...I AM REACHING FOR MY SWORD!!

5) Next...snickering and blowing coffee through my nose.

6) seconds later I could bear no more and just stopped the feed. I mean I am no master of the steel, but this guy makes me look good. Really, I couldn't believe it.

-R

kimq
18th November 2003, 21:42
My. Those videos I tell ya. Aren't all these Xtreme martial artists RIPPED?! There must be a shirt shortage in that area of the world! I never knew traditional martial arts have Olympic-style gymnastics! I can only imagine the ancient samurai practicing those flippy/kicky/flying techniques with all their armor and weapons on for the upcoming battle!

(Sniff) And look at me. (Sniff sniff) I'll never be like those guys on the videos. (Sniff) Ever. (Sniff sniff)

Shitoryu Dude
18th November 2003, 22:23
Wire-Fu! Must remember all the really bad Wire-Fu movies we've watched. These idiots think that its real.

:beer:

Julian Gerhart
18th November 2003, 23:37
did anyone else notice that on the so called "meet the experts" page the "experts" had a total of roughly 30 years of expierience between the two of them?

Shorite
19th November 2003, 02:03
actually, i admire the sword guy, he was able to do that kata, with a pout on his face the whole time, quite amazing!

Chrono
19th November 2003, 03:46
Originally posted by kimq
There must be a shirt shortage in that area of the world!

I noticed that, too. Just because they look good without a shirt on, doesn't mean that everybody wants to see them that way.

Jon

rupert
19th November 2003, 03:53
I watched the Karate movies. Come on guys - give credit where credit is due. These guys are good. Put most of us to shame, I am pretty sure of that.

Rupert Atkinson

TenguAteMyPuppy
19th November 2003, 04:04
:laugh:

Mekugi
19th November 2003, 05:52
Now Rupert, don't make me "...fly back to England and give your wife something to hang her towels on!"


Originally posted by rupert
I watched the Karate movies. Come on guys - give credit where credit is due. These guys are good. Put most of us to shame, I am pretty sure of that.

Rupert Atkinson

Kyukage
19th November 2003, 18:40
Looks like an interesting show ... worth catching, anyway. One major problem I had: not one person using a bladed weapon was cutting with proper angle or real control.

All in all, the video's where fairly impressive - good speed, obvious dedication to the styles and forms, good builds, etc. You can also tell that the people fight more for the excercise and the show (one of the video's commentary even says as much).

Personally, I do not believe MA should be a show, so that part is a bit lost on me. However, for what they do, they do it very well.


Congratulations!
You've won 90 total points out of a possible 100.

rinpoche
20th November 2003, 20:01
I got 100 on the quiz, and wish I hadn't wasted my time.

That x-treme stuff is for wussies.

I say that because what I do is Ultimate Xtreme No-Holds-Barred Battlefield Combat Martial Arts :p

Kyukage
21st November 2003, 03:13
... what I do is Ultimate Xtreme No-Holds-Barred Battlefield Combat Martial Arts

Wooooo.... Dude, like, you're my hero. :D

Mike Passow
1st December 2003, 04:10
I realized while watching that show that if they can get the martial arts so horribly wrong, something which is happening right now - how can we trust their dinosaur shows on topics that happened millions of years ago.

I will never again believe the Discovery Channel, even if they are telling me what time it is.

That show was overwhelmingly incompetent, irresponsible (telling kids NOT to listen to that voice inside that tells them "not to do things"), and exxagareted.

Please, all of you need to watch it for near-constant laugh out loud humor. I laughed so hard my sides hurt. Though not near as much as Mike Mullins' sides hurt when he failed to use "Iron Shirt". I can't believe he failed to use Iron Shirt. EVERYBODY knows Iron Shirt, and he (or his teacher) apparently did 2 minutes later. So where'd Iron Shirt go?

I watched this show with some martial arts friends - and we agree that the ONLY JUSTICE in that show was that Mullins didn't win ANYTHING at the end.

Apparently Mullins needs to go to more seminars. His one hour apiece in every McDojo in the United States didn't seem to help any.

--

Seriously though, maybe we should start a petition to the Discovery Channel to protest how incompetent and irresponsible this show was.

Yours,
Mike

Mike Passow
1st December 2003, 04:35
This is a MUST SEE 2-hour film with your martial arts buddies.

Bring popcorn.

Laugh.

Cry.

Marvel at the bloodthirsty wielder of the spinning spike weapons.



- mike

Kyukage
1st December 2003, 04:38
I just got done watching the show myself, and I do have to say that I share your frustrations.

In all fairness, I do have to point out that they did mention several times that the "Xtreme Martial Arts" movement is essentially a divergence from traditional foundation arts as a sort of performance art, not a combat art. Mullins (fast and powerful, but unfocused, sloppy, and completely lacking in single-mindedness, not to mention completely lacking in any real tutorials in weapon arts past the bo) directly says that the "XMA" are more about flash and show than they are about fighting performance.

In the end, however, I do feel that the show did little more than hurt the reputation and image of the Martial Arts community. Unfortunately, all of the subtle clues that XMA are really more about show than combat are all too subtle for anyone not "in the circle" of traditional combat arts to see or understand. The general public will - I fear - walk away with the impression that this was an accurate representation of modern Martial Arts and a natural progression of the old arts. Sad, but inevitable.

In closing, I will allow my elitist nature to surface long enough to say this: This is a perfect example of why the old schools and teachers of just a few generations ago kept their arts a secret, and should never have been pressured to open teachings to the general public. Any endeavor to take an old, respected, intricate art (of any kind - Martial Arts, literature, sciences, etc) and turn it into a past-time, hobby, or curious indulgence will ultimately see it's descent into side-show recreation, and that is a disservice to the art in question, it's surrounding traditions, and the serious practitioners thereof. I see this sort of degradation of the arts in virtually every facet of their popularization, and it saddens and scares me.

Even my fiancé – with no martial training, and possessing only secondary exposure to the arts only through my activities – observed that the show was not a positive portrayal. To quote her directly, “sadly enough, pretty soon, it will all just be another elementary school gym class activity”

Kyukage
1st December 2003, 04:41
Marvel at the bloodthirsty wielder of the spinning spike weapons.

Sadly, he was one of the most entertaining of them all, and the only sincere one in the lot. At least he was honest about his desires and motivations.

Kyukage
1st December 2003, 04:58
Yes, a third post, but I just had to add the following:

Interestingly, the first three tenets of Shorei Ryu (primary style of Mullins) as I understand them are …

Karate is my secret, I will not display it to the public.
So, he’s supposed to keep his art a secret and specifically not display it publicly, but then he stars in a sensationalized documentary on the subject.

I bear no weapons.
Yet, he learned, performed, and competed with bo, kama, and other weapons.

I pray forgiveness for having used karate in an unmannerly fashion and pray I never have to use it again.
I won’t get started on this either.

Now, not being a practitioner of Shorei Ryu, perhaps my understanding or interpretation of these are a bit off, but I really think they’re pretty straight forward. I can’t stand hypocrites.

hiddindragon08
1st December 2003, 05:12
I GOT SOOO PUMPED AFTER WATCHING IT I HAD TO START TRAINING!!! and this is after a 15 hour shift @ applebees!

Mike Passow
1st December 2003, 05:22
Unfortunately, all of the subtle clues that XMA are really more about show than combat are all too subtle for anyone not "in the circle" of traditional combat arts to see or understand. The general public will - I fear - walk away with the impression that this was an accurate representation of modern Martial Arts and a natural progression of the old arts. Sad, but inevitable.


You are absolutely correct! It's very sad indeed. They need a new name - maybe Combative Gymnastics - for what they are portraying here.

It's like the producers of this show went to Matt and Mike and made out the Truth about modern martial arts to be what THEY told the producers it was. For a show claiming "science" as its claim-to-fame, it was sorely lacking in the barest piece of objectivity. I'd like to see them interview a koryu practitioner (for analysis of the "tradition" and technique involved), a UFC or K-1 winner (to compare their 'xtreme point sparring' to more combative sparring forms) and such. In the world of "Xtreme Martial Arts" - there is no viewpoint but the XTREME viewpoint.

Not what I'd expect from the Discovery Channel.

--

Here is what the show claims to portray:



Xtreme Martial Arts

As two young martial artists fight their way through the world's most prestigious tournament

It is!? I know nothing of tournament fighting, but we didn't hear much about the tournament, or why it is "prestigious" or the "Super Bowl" of martial arts.



the biomechanical secrets of the martial arts are revealed for the first time.

That's a fairly large and unsubstantiated claim. One of literally dozens on the show.



Find out how the martial arts have developed into the ultimate human weapon.

They say -nothing- of the combat/gymnastics we'll be seeing for the entirety of the show. They make everything out to be for fighting, and to be the next 'evolution' of the fighting martial arts. Then you see Mullins' pretty form in all the demonstartions go completely out the window in lieu of sloppy lunging front kicks and diving backfists... mere minutes after seeing a complex animation involving him using "chi" to become in perfect balance with the world, and calmly and easily repel an attack by his training partner. Then they go to tournament land and he loses the Force? What gives?

--

This show would probably make most people who enjoy E-budo feel sick to their stomach - unless you plan to watch it with friends for a good laugh.

Yours,
Mike

Karyu
1st December 2003, 05:23
I thought it was a terrible program with an xtreme emphasis on flashy acrobatics. A person with no budo knowledge would watch this and assume that the ultimate goal of the martial arts is to have pizazz at a tournament.

I also didn't like how Chinese and Japanese techniques and weapons were blended together without distinction, as if it was possible to do so.

Mike Passow
1st December 2003, 05:25
I pray forgiveness for having used karate in an unmannerly fashion and pray I never have to use it again.
I won’t get started on this either.


I think Mullins intentionally spraying his last drink and spit all over the training area (and maybe judges in one shot!?) prior to every kata he demonstrations is pretty much all we need to mention for that one.

- mike

Kyukage
1st December 2003, 05:41
... spraying his last drink and spit all over the training area ...

I agree. although Shinto as a religious practice does use this particular form (orally spraying of water) as a punctuation to some prayers, I highly doubt Mullins uses it for that purpose. Oh that's right ... he does it to separate himself from the rest - to differentiate himself - it's "his thing" as he puts it. Spewing one's Gatorade on the floor and the judges would certainly separate one from the crowd - unless of course, one was at a WWF show.

I dare say that anyone would be tossed from a koryu dojo for such a blatant show of disrespect.

Shitoryu Dude
1st December 2003, 06:04
I'm watching that crappy show right now - horrible misrepresentation of MA.

:mad:

Mekugi
1st December 2003, 06:19
But...

DOES IT MAKE YOU HARWNY BABY?
http://images.usatoday.com/life/gallery/austin-powers/coat.jpg


Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
I'm watching that crappy show right now - horrible misrepresentation of MA.

:mad:

Tea Guy
1st December 2003, 06:42
I have this stupid show playing in the background. I'm just getting pissed off. I want to turn it off, but I want to have something to compain about for a little while.
I really can't believe this show....
These people are just ignorant. How can discovery channel do something this bad, I'm asking myself. Why would anyone enter these pathetic tournaments and perform these flashy shows? Have they no honor? Have they no self respect? My nephew could probably do a better job than these people.
These people are a disgrace to the name of martial arts.

C. Sieg

Starkjudo
1st December 2003, 06:43
Why the hell does one have to take their top off to perform kata? To look all cute and ripped for the girls? The kata demonstrations were the exact reason I could care less about competitive kata - all flash, all choreography and acrobatics, no foundation at all.

I thought Mullins came off as a cocky, arrogant !!! the entire time. The ONLY thing he got right was the sense of pride the teacher can have in the student, at the end - although he ought to have shame for the fact that he's teaching the kid Cobra-Kai Ryu.

No grappling + no locking techniques = waste of Rob's time.

Prince Loeffler
1st December 2003, 07:03
The Narrator was starting to annoy me with his description on the Bo. He keeps calling it The Bo Staff ! The Bo Staff !. During the breaking segment where, one TKD guy in TKD uniform call his unform "Gi" (Tony K, will you call discovery and set them straight ?..:D ) instead of "Dobak".

Matt Mullins version of Seichin kata was horrible ! Althought, His freestyle form seems ok. Then again I am not a big fan of extreme freestyle.

As for the sword segment, The way the narrator described the Katana " The Hand held Guillotine" was all new to me....:D John Boyd's freestyle sword routine was a sight to see.

and the sparring segment....I always hated these Tap, you lose ! KIND of sparring. If this is the superbowl of Martial Arts tournament, then what the heck would K-1 BE ? The sparring for this so called "superbowl" of martial arts reeks Bad sportmanship, Crappy showmanship, jeez, what's with the frikin two toned colored uniform, did that guy go to clown / martial arts academy ? ..Oh well, so much for preserving and educating the public about the essense of traditional martial arts.

No wonder the general public gets so misinform everyday. Thanks Dicovery Channel for creating more mass confusion and myth about traditional martial arts.

Suggestion: We should send Discovery an email of what we think. Imagine 10 thousands of us telling Discovery Channel to stick with reanimating dinasours and frozen icemen....:D

kenkyusha
1st December 2003, 07:12
Impressive that a two-hour 'documentary' managed to peddle more disinformation than weeks of training at a McDojo...

Luckily it did offer some insight into the new movie starring Tom "I understand Bushido" Cruise... just what we needed to round-out the whole experience.

Be well,
Jigme

Tripitaka of AA
1st December 2003, 07:21
I can hardly wait...

Should I be practising my California-Skate-Park slang in preparation? Will I be "zoned" when observing the "Rad" moves of these "Ripped" practitioners? Or is the popcorn and VCR playback all that I require for the maximum enjoyment of this prestigious show.


On a side note, every "quality" newspaper, TV show or author can be revealed as a know-nothing shallow sensationalist when they cover something that you have personal knowledge of. From local Press coverage of a church fete, to Glossy magazine interviews with people I know, I am repeatedly disillusioned and disappointed in the quality of representation. So how come I still believe in 90% of what I'm told?... We all ought to be able to remember that these pieces of work are just the fiction of the reporter's mind. With luck and good judgement, they can sometimes be a fair representation of the subject, but as an exception.

I once gave an interview for a "company" newspaper produced by the Inner London Education Authority (now defunct). It was circulated to every school and college in Greater London, to be read by the staff, although it would often be found in the libraries and Common Rooms. I spoke to a reporter with a tape recorder for about an hour and a half. He was doing a series on some of the extra-curricular activities that ILEA staff get up to. He wrote a quite good piece about me and my involvement with Shorinji Kempo. They had sent a photographer to class and my Sensei allowed me to take the starring role for a few posed photographs. The paper came out and I was very pleased to see that my Art had come across pretty much as I had wished... I was a little embarassed to see that it said I was a 4th Dan (two ranks higher than in reality, and equal to my Sensei - which I certainly was not). The photographer agreed to give me copies of the photographs (for personal use - all rights reserved), and I discovered that he had spilled coffee on the negatives and his final choice of photograph had been limited to one of three that survived unblemished. I was lucky though, the final choice was really quite flattering.



My point?
They will never get it totally right. They have a different job already. They only need to make it look interesting, within the deadline, at the cheapest cost. It's up to the rest of us to follow on from these efforts with our own more personal and well-informed backgrounds.

So criticise the program by all means, but make it clear exactly what you think should be rectified. So if you think the Sword bits were naff say why, then I can tell anybody who asks. If you think the grappling bits were nonsense, say why, and if anyone asks me I'll be able to give a more informed answer. If you think the gymnastic element was trash, let us know. If you think the guy's bare chest looked really attractive, .... perhaps you should keep that to yourself ;)

n2shotokai
1st December 2003, 14:45
I watched realizing the general public will take Xtreme MA as all MA with dismay. The guys with attitudes and ripping the gi tops off, well I guess it is all about presentation in Xtreme MA :D

But when that guy was explaining he finds the spinning spikes work so much better after a few stabs on someone makes them spin better since they are covered in blood, I had to wonder ....

1. Just how many times has he stabbed people to know this.
2. Does in anybody in the general public think martial artist are NOT blood thirsty idiots.

Rob Alvelais
1st December 2003, 15:41
Russ,

It had the look of being a genuine iai kata. Was it like ipponme or nihonme or something (albeit poorly executed)?

I'm thinking, "at least they didn't do something with kicks, grimacing facial expressions, rolls and more shouting than on a children's playground.

Rob


Originally posted by Mekugi
Man that sucked. I mean really sucked.

I have seen my eight year old do better after watching samurai dramas on TV.

What is wrong with this guy?

My reaction was as follows:

1) OK...no shirt...Kung Fu comfy pants...wahteva...

2) Hmm...reiho...little strange but...OK at least they did it.

3) OK reaching for the sword, real obvious...HEY LOOK AT ME...I AM REACHING FOR MY SWORD!!

5) Next...snickering and blowing coffee through my nose.

6) seconds later I could bear no more and just stopped the feed. I mean I am no master of the steel, but this guy makes me look good. Really, I couldn't believe it.

-R

CEB
1st December 2003, 16:07
Originally posted by Starkjudo
Why the hell does one have to take their top off to perform kata? .....

Because it is easier to tell if the shoulders are correct and if the posture and form is what you want. By sight it is easier to see if the abdomen extends outward during ibuki. There are lots of good reasons for nekkid kata. Its a traditional thing for us. It also stings more when Shime is applied. We take our tops off all the time for kata :)

kimq
1st December 2003, 16:19
I went through so many stages while watching the show that I thought I had terminal cancer - frustration, hopelessness, impatience, panic, over reaction, and then finally acceptance.

What a piece of crap! What makes it worse is that some "martial artists" are obviously pursing this path!

The ancient masters must be getting nauseous from all the grave spinning.

EmreDikici
1st December 2003, 16:45
Come on guys,
Everybody missed the best part. What I learned last night is, you have to spin and twirl your razor sharp katana like a baton and throw it in the air, only to catch it back again with the risk of losing couple of limbs to be a world champion. I hope people do not try it at home with sharp blades. :eek:

I have to wait until that technique is included in one of the ryuha's curriculum to start practicing koryu.. :D

n2shotokai
1st December 2003, 16:52
Originally posted by CEB
There are lots of good reasons for nekkid kata.

Oh man, why did you bring that up! XXXtreme kata, the next evolution!

I'm going blind just thinking about it.

hectokan
1st December 2003, 17:46
Hey Ed,

I think that guy bastarized your sanchin kata to piesces.Did this guy actualy say he was a traditionalist shorin ryu stylist?LOL


He is going to retire and pass on the torch to his protege at 22 years of age.I think he has not even started real training yet and he is already retiring?

:moon:That was the biggest croc of Sh*&^%T ever.

glad2bhere
1st December 2003, 18:01
I took a moment to read up on the two "experts" and do not recognize anything that they have done, nor they themselves for that matter. Does anyone actually know these people?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

CEB
1st December 2003, 18:41
Originally posted by hectokan
Hey Ed,

I think that guy bastarized your sanchin kata to piesces.Did this guy actualy say he was a traditionalist shorin ryu stylist?LOL


He is going to retire and pass on the torch to his protege at 22 years of age.I think he has not even started real training yet and he is already retiring?

:moon:That was the biggest croc of Sh*&^%T ever.

Hi Hector,

Didn't really see the show. I saw the beginning of it. It came on at 11:00 which is past my bedtime but we hadn't went to sleep yet. I don't know which guy you are referring to. Some kid referred to himself as being 'traditional' Shorei Ryu. If that is him then my wild hair guess is that his stuff is a mutation off from something that was invented in Pheonix Az. The last thing I saw before I told my wife to shut off the tube was some dude playing with e-mei. He looked like a pretty fun guy.

I couldn't get past the idea of using scientific technology to measure the force generated by bad technique. Also something about measuring the effectiveness of guys who don't hit each other seemed a little weird.

I wish I could do back those backflips though. That looked cool. I had a Judo teacher who made us do cartwheels. I never could do cartwheels. I didn't really understand the reason for them till I threw one of his guys with Tomoe Nage and he stopped class and told us that is why he teaches cartwheels. Sometimes the only counter to Tomoe Nage was to cartwheels out of it. I don't know, he is a former national champion and Olympic team alternate and I'm not, so I'll take his word on anything Judo.

Chrono
1st December 2003, 20:01
I can't believe I missed it! It sounds like it's something to watch after a hard day. Discovery did a couple of martial arts documentaries a couple of years ago that I thought were done quite well. I even taped them.

Jon

Bustillo, A.
1st December 2003, 21:03
Originally posted by CEB
Hi Hector,

I wish I could do back those backflips though. That looked cool.


For a MA show, I'd rate the it one of the worst.

And according to an ex-gymnast their backflips weren't that good.

bgigas
2nd December 2003, 05:26
I fully agree that this show was not worth the electricity wasted with the TV on, however, if you want to see it again, or missed it the first time, it will re-air on Nov, 4 at 9:00.

:smilejapa

Take care,

Chrono
2nd December 2003, 05:40
Originally posted by bgigas
if you want to see it again

I don't think anybody here would want to do that. Of course, since I missed it I'm surely going to watch it. I'm sure I'll get a laugh out of it if nothing else.

Jon

Mekugi
2nd December 2003, 07:20
Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
So criticise the program by all means, but make it clear exactly what you think should be rectified.

They could rectify the whole thing by taking it off the air. At this point, that is the only thing they can do to make it any better....

-R

Gene Gabel
2nd December 2003, 07:49
Originally posted by Soulend
The shirtless guy demonstrating iai kata in slo-mo with what looks suspiciously like a wallhanger is so sexy. I suppose an attempt to take your mind off of the singularly stupid and melodramatic commentary.

On another note, will anyone else be glad when we finally get over this fad of calling everything "extreme"?
..............................................................

The (Duncan McLeod) look alike doing what was supposed to be Iai was embarassing to all of us and made me more than a little queasy.....

. And we thought David Lee Roth was bad. I think if it was a toss up, I would pick DLR.. It seems that they did more justice (if there is such a thing in television) to the Chinese arts than the Japanese ones and didnt touch on the Philipine ones even though there was some attempt at arnis.
I have never seen a katana/Chinese gim set before,,especially one that ends with the katana in a vertical salute laying against the left arm (Chinese style)...

Dont get me started on the kumite...and that #1 weapons competition. Just what we need, kids on the block throwing their wall hangers up and catching them.

Without saying a whole lot of negative things we sure got a black eye on that encounter

Gene Gabel

Tea Guy
2nd December 2003, 07:55
Hey Mekugi,
I think in addition to taking the show off the air they owe everyone a formal apology complete with them getting on their hands and knees to beg for forgiveness.
Just my opinion.

C.Sieg

Mekugi
2nd December 2003, 08:42
I like yours better. I second that motion.



Originally posted by Tea Guy
Hey Mekugi,
I think in addition to taking the show off the air they owe everyone a formal apology complete with them getting on their hands and knees to beg for forgiveness.
Just my opinion.

C.Sieg

Karyu
2nd December 2003, 10:46
Originally posted by hectokan
He is going to retire and pass on the torch to his protege at 22 years of age. I think he has not even started real training yet and he is already retiring?

He isn't winning the tournaments anymore. That's what matters, right?

Bustillo, A.
2nd December 2003, 13:36
We agree the show was an embarrassment to MA

Instead of us just complaining about it...
Let them know what you think.


http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations

n2shotokai
2nd December 2003, 14:52
Originally posted by Bustillo, A.
We agree the show was an embarrassment to MA

Instead of us just complaining about it...
Let them know what you think.


http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations
Agreed,

DONE!

kenshorin
2nd December 2003, 15:00
Originally posted by n2shotokai

But when that guy was explaining he finds the spinning spikes work so much better after a few stabs on someone makes them spin better since they are covered in blood, I had to wonder ....

1. Just how many times has he stabbed people to know this.
2. Does in anybody in the general public think martial artist are NOT blood thirsty idiots.

:rolleyes:

(Didn't see the show, but... :eek: )

Mekugi
2nd December 2003, 19:03
Me too, this was a great way to vent.


Originally posted by Bustillo, A.
We agree the show was an embarrassment to MA

Instead of us just complaining about it...
Let them know what you think.


http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations

sepai 85
2nd December 2003, 21:21
omg, that is the saddest load of crap I have ever seen no offence to all involved my big pet peave is when people like this call them selves karate. THIS IS NOT KARATE, I must admit I am envius of the physical shape of most of them but to pass them selves of as traditional is what really gets me going, what a bunch of jokers, they are an insult to all the is budo and bu jitsu.

your in respect

Tea Guy
2nd December 2003, 21:34
There! I have let the Discovery Channel hear my view on the matter!

I thank you for your suggestion, Bustillo, A.



Here is a copy of what I sent:


I have been viewing the Discovery Channel for years and have been satisfied with the programing for the most part, but the program entitled "Xtreme Martial Arts" was an outrage. The program had little, if anything to do with real martial arts. The program focused on amateurs who did not practice true martial arts, but rather flashy, crowd pleasing stunts. Martial arts are not about making something look flashy, nor are they to shown off as some cheap party trick. They are a tradition that should be respected. Martial arts already has a bad public image due to numerous movies and shows that were made to entertain the less informed public and certainly doesn't need a reputable network tarnishing it's honor anymore than it has been. I applaud the idea of creating programs about martial arts, but if you are to do such you should do it correctly. Such would mean to focus on the true nature of martial arts and appreciating the simple beauty of it, rather than producing hype with acrobatics and such. Personally, I believe the Discovery Channel needs to make a formal apology to the martial arts community for airing such a poor program and adding to the confusion of martial arts among the public. A good start would be to stop airing the "Xtreme Martial Arts" program.



I prefer thought out and polite complaints rather than "yelling" and "cursing". It seems to work better if you're polite about the matter.
Well...we'll see.


C.Sieg

CEB
2nd December 2003, 21:52
The true nature of martial arts (http://beagleweb.com/personal/Frantics-Tae-Kwon-Leep-64k.mp3)

Tea Guy
2nd December 2003, 22:04
CEB,
where did you find that? What is it from?
Anyway, amusing clip! Boot to the head!

C.Sieg

CEB
3rd December 2003, 04:32
I found the MP3 file doing a Google search. I first heard Boot to the Head in 1982. My college roomate had it on a Dr. Demento cassette tape.

Ken Allgeier
3rd December 2003, 07:45
I watched the tape of the 'Xtreme MA'last night and Matt Mullins does say that he studies Okinawan Shorei Ryu.What is interesting is that Okinawan Shorei was the forunner to Okinawan Goju Ryu also known as Naha-Te ( Bishop pg 26).I think what he means is that he studies something related to Robert Trias's creation of his own Shorei Ryu, given that Trias has a dubious background. In my opinion what Mullins was demonstrating had nothing to do with Okinawan Karate (or Japanese Karate & Budo in general),even his inane attempted at Seiyonchin kata.Does anyone know why Fumio Demura was on the program?

Over all, I also believe that the Discovery Channel program was crap.







ken allgeier

Chrono
5th December 2003, 05:19
Okay, guys. I just saw it, actually half of it, and I didn't think it was that bad. I mean, I can't distinguish between good and bad forms so it all looks legit to me. But I do think it should be seen only once. But I do have one question: The guy who showed the katana, after he bowed to the sword shouldn't he have touched all of it while it was in the scabbard?

Jon

Bustillo, A.
5th December 2003, 13:42
Originally posted by Chrono
Okay, guys. I just saw it, actually half of it, and I didn't think it was that bad. I mean, I can't distinguish between good and bad forms so it all looks legit to me. But I do think it should be seen only once. But I do have one question: The guy who showed the katana, after he bowed to the sword shouldn't he have touched all of it while it was in the scabbard?

Jon

Here is a hint.

If they spin, flip, twirl and throw the katana in the air like a baton...yes, that bad.

Chrono
5th December 2003, 16:44
Originally posted by Bustillo, A.
If they spin, flip, twirl and throw the katana in the air like a baton...yes, that bad.

I thought so. He said so himself that it was more likely to hurt himself than his opponent.

Jon

CEB
6th December 2003, 02:38
Warning this video clip is Xtreme. Lots of blood (http://therabbithole.icarusindie.com/dearjesus//Video/Funny%20Videos%20-%20Crazy%20little%20Martial%20Arts%20Master.mpeg)

Brent Kistner
12th December 2003, 05:00
Originally posted by CEB


I couldn't get past the idea of using scientific technology to measure the force generated by bad technique. Also something about measuring the effectiveness of guys who don't hit each other seemed a little weird.


hahaha! this is exactly what i was hung up on as well. the only thing that i took from this program as it ended was that the show must have been put together by someone who obviously has no idea about the martial arts at all... well that and the fact that the "gentlemen" who were bastardizing the arts had really nice flat stomachs.

what a bunch of bull*&#!! never in my life have i seen anyone be so wrong in so many different areas of the martial arts.

lol... my ribs are still sore from laughing at that show. i figure if i keep watching it, and it stays this funny, by this time next month i've have the same stomach tone as they had.:)

Brent

Brent Kistner
12th December 2003, 05:22
just out of curiosity, who do you think is more guilty of bastardizing these wonderful arts, the practicioners who are competing in these tournaments? or the judges who award showy, spinning, backflip packed routines over tried and true, solid and technically correct kata?

i cant even imagine how those judges sleep at night knowing what they are doing to the martial arts...

after spending year in my attempt to get sanchin kata down, i watch this show and learn that all i ever really needed to do it to do a backflip and i too, could be an instant champion.

(i should be kicked in the 'taters' (as my co-worker calls them)just for saying that)

Brent

Tea Guy
12th December 2003, 18:46
Well, all in all....it would probably have to be practitioners, right? If they had more self control and smaller egos they might not do this type of foolishness. They probably did not take the time to truly study the art, including the reasons of particular techniques, history, and correct mind set of the martial arts they "practice".
While the judges could be put to blame, I do not believe it is their fault as much as the practitioners. The practitioners could have chosen to ignore such tournaments if they weren't so full of themselves. The problem is with what type of people these practitioners are. They want to show off and be recognized. Personally, I'm a lot more impressed with someone who is humble and doesn't want to show off, despite their skill.

C.Sieg

vioncu
3rd May 2004, 13:44
Originally posted by Brent Kistner
just out of curiosity, who do you think is more guilty of bastardizing these wonderful arts, the practicioners who are competing in these tournaments? or the judges who award showy, spinning, backflip packed routines over tried and true, solid and technically correct kata?

i cant even imagine how those judges sleep at night knowing what they are doing to the martial arts...

after spending year in my attempt to get sanchin kata down, i watch this show and learn that all i ever really needed to do it to do a backflip and i too, could be an instant champion.

(i should be kicked in the 'taters' (as my co-worker calls them)just for saying that)

Brent

IMHO, the only one to blame is the Discovery Channel.
If some guys have decided to practice gymnastics with floppy-katana and to call that "Xtreme MA", that's their's business.
If some other guys have decided to invest money to make a film about the "Xtreme MA" is also their's business.
But if Discovery Channel buys the crap and sells it as authentic MA in december and then (despite all your e-mails!) again (in Central Europe) in april - that's the real guilt.

Budo-Mike
3rd May 2004, 14:30
"I took a moment to read up on the two "experts" and do not recognize anything that they have done, nor they themselves for that matter. Does anyone actually know these people?"

Nobody mentioned it yet so dont know if ye already know this but mike chat was formerly the blue power ranger. If thats not experience I dont know what is.

n2shotokai
4th May 2004, 00:04
Mike Chat is fairly well known in Southern California for his past competition success. At least to the people in that group. I know nothing more than what has already been stated.

n2shotokai
4th May 2004, 00:14
Mike Chat is fairly well known in Southern California for his past competition successes. At least to the people in that group. I know nothing more than what has already been stated.

PeteBoyes
30th January 2006, 10:29
Firstly, sorry for raking up an old post but I caught this program for the first time on Discovery Real Time last night and thought I'd check on E-Budo before posting any comments. I was waiting for the subsequent documentary (Bruce Lee - the intercepting fist) to start but fell asleep waiting for it. Doh!

Being 'only' a judoka the main thing that struck me about the 'tournament' (US Open ?) was the complete lack of Health and Safety regulation observance.

In the UK when we do a Judo tournament there are all sorts of regulations that we must comply with, not least being the safety area around the mat - and we don't hurl 'lethal' objects around at high-speed.

Watching the TV coverage I cringed a few times, not so much at the techniques, but more so that the person doing the somersault/baton twirling could have stood on or 'clobbered' a member of the audience. Does that mean we should applaud their control for not doing so ? I don't think so.

Also, the main subject of the 'documentary', Matt, was bemoaning that even his 'less traditional' style was now out of date and the judges were placing their emphasis on showmanship over technique. How has this progressed, will there be a backlash and a return to the 'traditional' ways or have they been lost forever ? (only to be found in a few dark corners of E-Budo!)

glad2bhere
30th January 2006, 12:53
That pendulum has a way of swinging back the other way, but usually only AFTER people who know better begin to understand what they are losing. The Chinese (PRC) have come to discover that now that the Communist administration has taken a second look, the idea of a homogenized, non-threatening gymnastic (WUSHU) was developed at the expense of losing cultural artifacts such as the traditional Chinese martial traditions.

The whole idea of martial-arts-as-entertainment proceeds from the idea of pandering to the most pedestrian interests in the population, mayhaps to sell yet one more class, open one more school or market one more stretching machine. My personal concern is that in the flurry of illumunated nunchukas and satin uniforms we may find, too late, that we have lost the heritage we had been expected to pass to the next generation. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce