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Robert Liljeblad
21st November 2003, 09:02
Gassho,

I read on the WSKO homepage that Walther Wunderle from Germany received 6th dan at Hombu. This is really an achievement. Does anybody know how many non-Japanese 6th dan there are in Shorinjikempo?

Regards,

Robert

Tripitaka of AA
21st November 2003, 15:33
That is impressive isn't it. Does anyone have a link to a history of this gentleman?


I was also pleased to see an ex BSKF Kenshi on the same page

Mr John McCulloch recieving his 5th Dan certificate. Pretty cool... further down, Gerry Rixen, 4th Dan.

Also some other regular contributors to this forum.

David Dunn
21st November 2003, 16:26
Don't forget Gerry's partner, Raymond Smith aka 'Baz'.

Manfred
23rd November 2003, 11:55
Gassho

Wunderle Sensei is the founder of the german shorinjikempo and has started with shorinjikempo in the seventies in Fukuoka/Japan, where he lived some years. His sensei is Satoh Kenshi from the Fukuoka Nishidoin. 24 years ago he started in Augsburg to practice and today he is the president of the german federation and shibucho of Sugakusa Branch. So we will have our 25th anniversary next year and I hope we can welcome many Kenshi from all over the world in Augsburg/Germany to our Gasshuku.

Bodhisattva
25th November 2003, 07:39
Surely a great achievement, and anyhow a great reason to enjoy !!!

Manfred, i'm from Max Rossi Sensei's Branch, and we were dealing about it yesterday, we're pretty sure to be there to enjoy that festivity !!! so let us know as many info as you can (surely my Sensei can gather informations from standard sources, but you will surely be more precise and amable :)) i can send you my mail by PM.

Robert Liljeblad
27th November 2003, 00:44
Gassho,

Now Peter Munk in New Zealand is mentioned on the WSKO homepage as 6 th dan. Does anybody know if he has attended Busen?

This makes two non-Japanese 6th dan. I think I recall that it also exists someone in France that is 6th dan? Is there anyone in the US?

Regards,

Robert

Julien
27th November 2003, 08:31
Hello,

You're right Robert, there are 6th dan in France.
Actually there are two : Mr Najhi and Mr Lemarchand, two of the very first Aosaka sensei's students in France, received their 6th dan certificate at Paris Taikai in May 2001.
I don't know about other countries.

johan_frendin
27th November 2003, 18:09
Messersmith ? sensei in Miami Florida is 6 th dan but I do not know if he is still practicing?

Johan Frendin

Robert Liljeblad
28th November 2003, 00:55
Hi Johan,

When you mention it I remember Viggen talking about Messersmith Sensei. Did he started his practice in Rakuto doin for Morikawa sensei?

I thought all the time that he was Japanese but when giving it further thought maybe Messersmith is not the typical Japanese name :)

Now we have 4 or possible 5 non-Japanese 6 th dan!

Regards

slait
16th December 2003, 15:53
Does Cardo V. Urso (his biography (http://www.lmsleadership.com/Martart.html)) have a recognized 6th dan in Shorinji Kempo or is he just one of these self-promoted masters? I'm curious, because I've never heard of him before.

David Dunn
16th December 2003, 16:58
Sounds like crock to me Santeri. Have you ever heard of anyone making rokudan in the space of six years? One for the WSKO netbuster...

Mr Urso has interesting taste in head and facial hair.

Sunndew
16th December 2003, 18:21
Originally posted by johan_frendin
Messersmith ? sensei in Miami Florida is 6 th dan but I do not know if he is still practicing?

Johan Frendin

At the moment he is working on opening an new dojo in Miami. Our branch is looking foward to being there to celebrate when it opens. As of right now the Alabama branch is the only branch in the SouthEast.

Tripitaka of AA
17th December 2003, 06:42
Originally posted by slait
Does Cardo V. Urso (his biography (http://www.lmsleadership.com/Martart.html)) have a recognized 6th dan in Shorinji Kempo or is he just one of these self-promoted masters? I'm curious, because I've never heard of him before.

A search on E-Budo gives a couple of references to "Cardo Urso" which seem to verify much of the bulk of the biography. It seems he is a multi-faceted US Marine Corps Close Quarter Combat instructor. See http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10727&perpage=15&highlight=cardo%20urso&pagenumber=2

This makes the claim to "6th Degree Blackbelt in Shorinji Kempo" harder to fathom, as a genuine expert has no need to inflate his reputation with fictitious ranks does he.

I assume there is a reasonable explanation, probably involving a mistaken entry on the website which has previousloy gone unnoticed by the author.

slait
17th December 2003, 12:49
Gassho,


I assume there is a reasonable explanation, probably involving a mistaken entry on the website which has previously gone unnoticed by the author.
You're probably right, David. That is the only webpage, wherein the connection between Urso and Shorinji Kempo is mentioned.

Robert Liljeblad
27th February 2004, 06:38
Gassho,

Ok, more than 50 years have passed since Kaiso founded SK and there is five none Japanese who is 6th dan (senior according to Ade). I read that in December 2003; 56 kenshi passed the 7th dan exam! How many 8th dan and 9th dan there are I do not know.

What is the reason for this? Are none Japanese people unable to commit to what it takes to learn SK? Or is the organization to blame?

If this would be a company and WSKO one of its markets I would say that it’s wasting time to be here!

Kessu,

jonboy
27th February 2004, 11:34
Robert, how many years does it take to get to 6th or 7th dan? Shorinji Kempo has only been in the UK (and similar for other European countries) for 30 years. Yet it has been practiced for well over 50 in Japan. Is this not why?

Robert Liljeblad
29th February 2004, 10:15
Maybe that is the reason. But also the time required is different if you are inside or outside of Japan !?!

Anders Pettersson
1st March 2004, 02:27
Originally posted by jonboy
Shorinji Kempo has only been in the UK (and similar for other European countries) for 30 years.
Shorinjikempo has officially been practiced in Europe since 1970.


Originally posted by jonboy
how many years does it take to get to 6th or 7th dan?

Absolute minimum time from minarai to 6th dan for WSKO kenshi is 213 months (17 years and 9 months) and a minimum age of 33 years. For kenshi in Japan it is a little shorter 152 months (12 years and 8 months) with a minimum age of 30 years.
For 7 dan it is another 8 years I think (it is not listed in the Kamokuhyo bu I know a kenshi that took his rokudan at minimum age and he also took his nanadan when he was 38). The minimum time also requires about 100 practice sessions a year.

But considering that the special Dan tests are not conducted that often it will probably take longer time. In Japan they usually have dan tests for 1-3 dan every month in each local federation.
4th dan and above are only conducted at hombu and not every month. You also need to be enrolled in the Busen course (formerly known as Busen Bekka) to be qualified to take tests for godan and above.

For foreigners (WSKO kenshi) it is now (since April 2002) possible to have 3 dan tests in each federation (for countries that have a national federation), which means more or less anytime. For 4th dan and above it is only possible at special WSKO koshukai or if going to Hombu. Before 2002 the same applied for 3 dan exams as for 4 dan and above, ie. only at WSKO koshukai etc.

So one reason why we don’t have the same amount of kenshi in senior ranks would be that it there are longer minimum time requirements for us compared to Japan.

Personally though I think that the main reason would be the lack of regular exposure to many senior instructors, which if you attend Busen in Japan you will see different instructors each month at the Busen practice.
Another is that it for all tests for 3 dan and above used to be difficult to find the opportunity to take the test. It was (and maybe still is) only a few occasions in each region (Europe or America etc.) for several years (i.e. not every year). Today I think that this have gotten a little better, like the sandan tests now possible to have in each national federation, also WSKO seams to be more willing to conduct the special Dan examinations (4th dan and above) more often in regional koshukai than before.

Another big reason for not many non-Japanese people reaching rokudan is the lack of information/study material etc. available in other languages than Japanese (such as Kyohan etc.)
As it is today I think that it is more or less necessary to have some understanding of Japanese to be able to understand and learn what you need to get to 5-6 dan.

/Anders

kirgan
3rd March 2004, 03:52
Gassho,

To answer Johan Frendin, Messersmith is practicing. I am a student of his. He started teaching in Miami last year and is in the process of making it an official Dojo. It is based at FIU in Miami.


--Mike

Mike Kirgan

Kimpatsu
3rd March 2004, 04:19
Originally posted by kirgan
Gassho,

To answer Johan Frendin, Messersmith is practicing. I am a student of his. He started teaching in Miami last year and is in the process of making it an official Dojo. It is based at FIU in Miami.

Gassho, Mike-san, and welcome to e-budo.
Please clarify: I presume FIU is a university of some sort, but what exactly does FIU stand for?
TIA and kesshu.

kirgan
3rd March 2004, 04:28
Gassho and thanks for the welcome. FIU stands for Florida International University. As a faculty member in Asian Studies at FIU, Messersmith is able to sponser offical University student clubs. He sponsered the FIU Shorinji Kempo club. Although it is a student club, it is open to employees of the University such as myself as well. We started practicing in October of 2003 and recieved offical FIU club status in early Feb. Now Messersmith is sending in the paper work to apply to the World Shorinji Kempo Organization to make our group offical.


--Mike

Mike Kirgan

Kimpatsu
3rd March 2004, 04:37
Gassho. Excellent news! I think we should all plan a trip to Miami in the near future, particularly as it's only 4 degrees C here at the moment...
Kesshu. ;)

Anders Pettersson
30th March 2004, 03:24
Gassho.

On the WSKO homepage you can now see a presentation of Indonesian kenshi (http://wsko.econ-net.or.jp/b-report/66.html) Henry Soselisa who also is 6th Dan.

Another happy news that I recently heard is that Andrew Sparks (from US) recently passed his test for 6th Dan.

Congratulations to Sparks-sensei.


/Anders