GJJ and full contact

[silllybillly]

Why does gracie ju jutsu seem to be the dominate martial art of full contact sport fighting?

I know it is not real fighting. Besides from not being able to fish hook, poke people in the eyes, use weapons, use your enviroment, run, or call for help, are there any other differences?

There are differences in that you cannot use psychological influences and such to stop the fight from happening in the first place and this and that.

Does anyone think that gjj doesn't dominate mma matches?

Most of the matches I have seen "go to the ground". Why do the majority of martial arts schools teach standing up if this is so? Is this so?

[egeneto]

none of the champions of the modern ufc are gracie juijitsu people

my favorite mma athlete has greco roman wrestling as his base

truthfully in the modern version both ufc and pride the athletes are cross trained in wrestling,boxing,kickboxing,and submissions(which by the way come from alot more sources than jiujitsu)

take care

[DWeidman]

Originally posted by silllybillly
Besides from not being able to fish hook, poke people in the eyes, use weapons, use your enviroment, run, or call for help, are there any other differences?

Does anyone think that gjj doesn't dominate mma matches?

Most of the matches I have seen "go to the ground". Why do the majority of martial arts schools teach standing up if this is so? Is this so?

Another significant difference is "fair fight" - something that shouldn't be counted on (however, it is counted on in "matches")

This topic has been run through the paces several times - so I recommend using the "search" function above.

As for the last question - what did your instructor say when you asked him this question? Surely you are actively training, correct?

-Daniel Weidman
San Diego Bujinkan TenChiJin Dojo

[silllybillly]

Nope, No training, just shootin' the bull

[DWeidman]

Originally posted by silllybillly
Nope, No training, just shootin' the bull

Surprise, surprise.

:rolleyes:

Whatever...

-Daniel Weidman
San Diego Bujinkan TenChiJin Dojo

[kenanderson]

Mr. Dean,

At the expense of echoing Mr. Weidman, what does this have to do with the ninpo & ninjutsu forum? This question is geared toward competition fighting, which is not something generally discussed in this forum. Since it seems that you don't train in our martial art, you should probably ask this question in a forum that discusses what you do study, or in the member's forum.

- Ken Anderson

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Why is this in the Ninpo forum? Can someone move it to where is should be...ta

[silllybillly]

Well, I wanted an answer from a ninpo point of view.

[kimq]

Move along. Move along.

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Fair enough Todd, you didn't state that in yout first post.

It's still abit of a wierd question due to Ninpo does not really see itself as a competative art and does not partake in offical sparring tournaments apart from ones arrange in class.

I think people who do ninpo would probably give you same answers as most other people doing different arts, it's just down to common sense in the end.

Fighting is not the aim in martial arts, mearly a road to the destination.

Cheers

[silllybillly]

Do you think from a purely self defense point of view that a grappeling or wrestling art would be better for a person to learn?

Given what we see in these competitions?

[monkeyboy_ssj]

all arts are good to learn for self defense, but you've got to remember that grappling is very dangerous in a fight, broken glass, there friends chipping in and giving you the boot, could end up messy.

When people say that a lot of fights end up on the ground, these are fights, not self defence, completely different things.

You learn martial arts to defend yourself as a last option, being a stand up fighter and more trained than the attacker then you should be able to stay upright and leave them on the floor using your training.

Ninpo usually covers both upright and floor fighting options.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by silllybillly
Do you think from a purely self defense point of view that a grappeling or wrestling art would be better for a person to learn?

Given what we see in these competitions?

From a purely self defense point, buy a gun. So far, there isn't much better than that.

If you are thinking of defending yourself in a contest then study what usually wins those contests. It may take some time for proficiency, though, no matter what you decide to do, if anything.


Mark

PS: As E-budo.com is a Japanese Martial Arts and Culture message board (as you may have noticed on your way in), you may get more on-topic answers from the MMA message boards.

[MarkF]

BTW: It isn't Gracie Ju Jutsu, it is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Rorion Gracie's academy is named Gracie Jiu Jitsu, but he teaches Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.


Mark

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Hi Silly Billy, Just wondering how old you are? you don't seem to have anything in your profile thingy.

p.s. Mark, what if you do Iron Shirt Kung Fu? Surely a gun would be useless?

Cheers

[silllybillly]

I am 25 years old.

I don't want to have to carry a gun around all the time. Or suffer the consequenses of shooting someone. I was thinking more like pepper spray or something. The problem is then you have to make sure you have it on you all the time. Some places you are not allowed to have them. You have to get to them in an instant.

Even these things can be taken off you and used on you. I thing some martial arts training would be good.

I wanted answers from a ninpo point of view. I guess now that this thread was kicked out of the ninpo section I would like some opinions from a japanese point of view.

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Maybe you should have possed the question "Is ninpo good in self defence situations?"

Cheers

[silllybillly]

hindsight is 20/20

[monkeyboy_ssj]

Originally posted by silllybillly
hindsight is 20/20

?

Or are you quoting Megadeth at us ;)

Cheers

[Mike Williams]

Or the question could have been "Is BJJ (or MMA) good in self defense situations?"

As it stands, I have no idea what the original question was.

But my question to you, Todd, is why you feel you need MA skills for self-defense? Are you regularly involved in physical encounters at your work (say as a doorman or LEO)?
Have you been assaulted or been involved in altercations away from work? If so, was there anything you could have done to avoid the situation in the first place? Would the outcome of the encounter have been different had you been armed or trained in MA?
If you haven't had any encounters, perhaps you could re-asses the places you hang out, or the journeys you take, to make yourself feel less uneasy.

My very strong belief is that the keys to effective self-defense are good situational awareness, good diplomacy skills, and good running ability. Very few MA classes teach you any of those.

If you do choose to train in MA, train because you enjoy it - and leave the other baggage behind you.

Cheers,

Mike

[Mike Williams]

Oh yeah, and anyone interested in the whole "street-effectiveness" thing (from an MMA perspective) could do a lot worse than reading Matt Thornton's take on the subject:
http://www.straightblastgym.com/page.aspsection=sport&parent=Press&session=

(if that link doesn't work, try going to straightblastgym.com and clicking on "Gorilla Press", then on "Street vs Sport")

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with SBG or Matt Thornton. I just like what he has to say.

Cheers,

Mike

[silllybillly]

lol, Yes I agree totally about the good running ability thing.

Let's see alot of questions to answer.

I feel that I would like to have MA skills for self defense situations cause I would not like to be beaten up. I am not regularly involved in physical encounters at work. I have been assaulted and involved in altercations away from work. I think every time thier is something I could have done to avoid the situation in the first place. The outcome may have been different if I was armed and I have trained in the martial arts.

[MarkF]

My post was on the cynical side because I wasn't sure what you wanted. If you truly want self-defense, do you want to spend the years to takes to be proficient (not deadly, and not necessarily at a level at which you could defend yourself. Situations dictate the level at which you need to be).

A late member here, known as Yamantaka, had a quote by another member, Mark Barlow, in his signature: "The Pen is mightier than the Sword at a distance of greater than five feet (I may be wrong on the ma-ai)," but that's it in essence of it. The founder of Judo and Japanese Sport, Jigoro Kano had one of my favorites: "Learn from the mistakes of others, you may not live long enough to make them all yourself."-JK

A good teacher is worth a thousand martial arts, modern art, or Western martial arts.

Do you eventually want to enter those NHB-style contests, either as an amateur or for money? Or are you comparing self-defense with such?

Either way you need a good base, one of at the minimum of two years before you can make a good decision.

After making the decision that you want a good teacher, then the research begins. Visit several schools, ask for a two or three free classes in each one, and make sure to speak with long term students (rank doesn't matter, time in is more likely to tell the story).

Do the same at another, then another. You don't want to dojo hop (go for one, stay three months, move on, try another for six weeks, etc.), but this isn't because you haven't made up your mind yet.

Do you want a strict kata-based environment with lots of striking for the purpose of doing damage, or do you want the one which can offer the necessary help, but with a minimum of involvement, eg, so you can run like hell and get out of there.

Lots of decisions to make andthey don't have to be made all at the same time. If you find a teacher who does a style you'd like to do and s/he and his students seem to know a lot, the teacher isn't a bully, isn't constantly yelling at minor errors, but instead helps out, try it. A couple of years is nothing in the amount of time you have if it doesn't work out.
*****

Anyway, 'tis better to spend time on a search so your chosen path up the mountain is the reward. It isn't the top you will be interested in, but the path getting you there. No one yet,has reached the top so you'll be in good company.

If that sounds difficult and time consuming, it really isn't. The beginning of everthing seems to take the longest so stick it out until you are sure it isn't for you.

That's the goal, not NHB or UFC, or any of a lot of sports which claim "full contact" and no rules. There are always rules. Even in an encounter whic happens in an instant in the parking lot of the bar, there are rules to follow. You learn them as you go, of course you could be the one special person who suddently sees all of the elephant at once, who knows?


Anyway, good luck in your search. Don't be afraid of stupid questions, they don't exist. Well if you receive a left-hook in return, you may want to rethink the next quesion a bit.;)

Grappling arts generally, are the ones to start with. You can move on when it doesn't suit you, if it doesn't, or it may be just what you need. Judo, for example uses muscles you didn't know you had, has a strong foundation because it will always come back when all else fails. It just does, and it is fun. Good keiko is almost a synonym for it.

[silllybillly]

I do not want to and do not plan on entering nhb contests in the future. I am comparing them to self defense.

I don't know if I will be able to ask for two or three free classes. It seems like it would be rude.

I went to a local martial arts place a while back and watched classes twice. He said to come on back another time. I talked to his girlfriend who I think worked there on books and such. His girlfriend was also one of his students who had been there for atliest two years. She told me some about it. To sign up he said you have to sign up a minimum of three months. I have not been back there.

I was thinking of the ninpo but have been really busy lately. I need to go watch some classes in that. It is kinda far away. Self defense is not my only reason for wanting to take up the martial arts again. But it is the focus of my thoughts lately and the focus of this thread. I would like to know what I am getting from a self defense point of view.

I studied Tang Soo Do for two years some years ago. I know I want to do another kind of martial art. Tae Kwon Do and Karate seem to similar to Tang Soo Do for me right now. Ninpo is my main one right now I am thinking of. But I have alot to think about.

I would like to do some weapons training only because I have not ever had any weapons training before. I know that this has little or nothing to do with learning self defense but it is something I would like to try.

Thanks