PDA

View Full Version : silicon in modern carbon steel swords



jezah81
11th December 2003, 02:37
Hi,
Ive tried to research this question on the net but cant find anything useful. All i want to know is if there is any silicon found in modern carbon steel swords?
Regards,

Brian Owens
13th December 2003, 08:49
Well, I've been looking for information on this for two days, and I can't find anything either.

I know that small amounts of phosphorus appear in steel. It seems logical that, depending on where the iron ore came from, some amount of silicon could be in steel, but I'm no metalurgist and I've often found that logic and "common sense" fail me when I try to second guess the facts.

Soulend
14th December 2003, 08:17
The 10XX steels such as the 1086 blades from Bugei lack significant amounts of silicon, but makes up for this somewhat with the inclusion of manganese, which also creates a stronger blade and improves grain structure.

I would guess that Chen blades of rail steel should be similar in composition to U.S. rail steels, which are (expressed as a percentage of weight by chemical analysis):

Carbon 0.740 - 0.840
Manganese 0.750 - 1.250
Phosphorus, Max. 0.020
Sulfur, Max. 0.020
Silicon 0.100 - 0.60
Nickel, Max. 0.250
Chromium 0.250
Molybdenum 0.060
Vanadium 0.010
Aluminum Max. 0.01

Any particular steel you're thinking about?

Brian Owens
14th December 2003, 09:54
Originally posted by Soulend
I would guess that Chen blades of rail steel should be similar in composition to U.S. rail steels...
Thanks, David. Where did you find that information?

I have an early Bugei/Chen Kogarasu Maru replica, which I believe was made of steel from Manchurian railroad track. I understand that now he is using Swedish powdered steel. I wonder how they compare.

jezah81
15th December 2003, 05:09
Thanks dudes, but does anyone know how the silicon amount in modern steel swords is compared to the amount in traditional Japanese made ones? I have read that they used rice straw with the tamahagane to increase the silicon, but i dont know the amount.
Any information guys....?
Regards,

Brian Owens
15th December 2003, 09:29
Originally posted by jezah81
Thanks dudes, but does anyone know how the silicon amount in modern steel swords is compared to the amount in traditional Japanese made ones? I have read that they used rice straw with the tamahagane to increase the silicon, but i dont know the amount.
I thought the rice straw was to prevent the loss of carbon from conversion into carbondioxide.

Soulend
15th December 2003, 10:41
Originally posted by jezah81
Thanks dudes, but does anyone know how the silicon amount in modern steel swords is compared to the amount in traditional Japanese made ones?

I think it would depend on which 'modern steel' you are referring to. Also, I get the impression that the amount of silicon in tamahagane varied a bit.

Oops..running late for work - BBL..

Soulend
16th December 2003, 09:59
Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
Thanks, David. Where did you find that information?


From the Alaska Railroad Corporation. Of course it is only a guess that old trans-Siberian rails would be similar...