The Disruptors

[Onmitsu]

Doing an Enbu (demonstration) can be a good way to attract new students or to let the public know that your school exists. Recently I spoke with a veteran martial arts instructor who hails from the pioneer days of Karate in Texas. He tells quite a few horror stories of heckling drunken rednecks, surprise attacks from knife wielding audience members, and other outrageous disruptions. I would like to invite discussion on anyone's experience in dealing with the 'unexpected' during seminars, demonstrations, and classes. Perhaps someone has devised useful strategies for these situations?

[kenshorin]

Wow... knife wielding audience members? The demos we have done in the past always have at least a heckler or two, with varying degrees of volume. But thats about it...

[tallpaul50]

Wow..somebody came at you with a knife at a demo? Yikes..maybe should start packing a gun under your gi? lol

I've had hecklers also and they can be quite annoying. Other than ignoring them, I'm not sure what you can do. I considered asking them to come out of the audience and see if they would like a more up close and personal demo, but that's not a good idea because of the liability factor if they should get hurt.

[Onmitsu]

Wow..somebody came at you with a knife at a demo? Yikes..maybe should start packing a gun under your gi? lol
I'm sorry I've forgotton the exact details (who, when, where)
I believe this occurred in the '70's. There was a demo where knife defenses were being shown. One of the audience members stepped up and pulled out an actual blade and said "whadya do against a 'real' knife". The martial artist doing the demo snatched up a metal folding chair and layed out the would be attacker. According to my friend the knife wielder was hurt pretty bad and left in an ambulance.

[MarkF]

I have an off-duty cop who watches my back these days, but back a few decades, I watched both my teachers throw out hecklers, both drunk and crazy.

Demos really shouldn't be held in malls and the like, and really should be limited, if possible, to invitation only. I've participated, and there is always "a guy..."

I can see how it could get out of hand if not handled immediately, preferably by security of some kind. No benefit of the doubt, no pleasant words, it should be dealt with in no uncertain terms.


Mark

[bruceb]

Do a verbal dance, and call the police?

Usually, if one person jumps up with a weapon, there are two or three people from the dojo who are behind them, or surround them with their own sticks/ weapons to keep them at "pigsticker distance" until the police arrive ... at least that is the worst scenario I have ever seen.

Normally, a verbal confrontation ensues with the disruptor leaving ... and the police picking them up later to have charges filed against them. That is the normal way of taking care a weapons weilding disruptor, but of course, in real life, anything can happen, can't it?

In the examination of preserving your life, or the life of others, we sometimes must play to the weaknesses of human beings and not fight or seek violence. Too many times when a person practices a martial art the mindset of physical prowess or violence comes to mind, but that should be the last resort, or the decision made when life and limb is gravely endangered. The attempt to resolve violence with words, some knowledge of the human condition that will allow a peaceful resolution rather than a violent resolution is well within the tenents of martial arts ... USE THEM!

Never forget that your training is but a small percentage of your weapons arsenal against disharmony, disruptors, and violence.

[Old Dragon]

Hi, I'm new here and have been reading for a few days, seems like a great group.

It has been a few years but I do remember my first sensei throwing out a few bozo's in his day. My first Sensei was an old repo man, bouncer and all round "work the door" kinda guy. Basiclly he was one tough SOB before you took into account his martial arts. He had gotten his karate and Judo training in Detriot in the mid 60's, in the midst of the race riots of the day.

I watched on one occassion where some clown came into the dojo and walked on the floor with his shoes spouting claims of who was gonna do what with whom. Sensei walked over to him, hit him in the shoulder and spun him around, grabbed him by the collar and seat of the pants and literally kicked him in the butt as he flew out the door.

On one other occassion he had someone in the office as I was teaching class as sempai. They had been arguing and Sensei said to me to continue and he would be back shortly. Sensei was taking his much younger adversary to the local chinese restaurant next door for a beer. About a half hour later there was sensei in the parking lot slapping and throwing this man who was 20 years his younger all over the place. I am still not sure what the arguement was about but the younger fellow had been quite insultive for a length of time before Sensei took him outside. As I said Sensei was from the old school of hard knocks.

It was not uncommon for us to bounce local dance's to raise money for the dojo. When trouble did happen Sensei was always there in the middle of it leading the action. At that time he would have been about35 or 40. Here we are 15 to 20 years later and I still see him from time to time, and I must admit he still seems like one tough SOB. hahahhaha


Just a little fun memory.

Mike O'Leary

[SLeclair]

Wow, that's crazy stuff right here. We did a number of enbu over the years, never had even one heckler, let alone kife-wielding maniacs and the like. On the other hand, most of the events we participated in were pretty formal things (demoed twice at the japanese embassy, twice in a museum for specials on Japan, things like that). But we do participate yearly in a 24-hour karate event called Karate for Community (raising funds), which is held in a park in the middle of downtown. Basically, it's a 24-hour sparring tournament with demos of different arts throughout (kobudo, taichi, iaido, kendo, etc.). Never had any problems there either. I would have thought getting a bunch of people practicing different arts together would perhaps start an argument as to art is better, why art x has a more realistic view of how a sword is used, etc. Nothing of the sort. Our sensei even goes up with a few people doing kobudo and whacks at them with an iaito while they demonstrate counters with tonfa, sai and the like. All good fun.

Is being heckled the norm for anyone doing enbu in public places? Maybe we're just not paying enough attention. Or hey, maybe we just look scarier and they don't dare :).

[kenshorin]

Originally posted by Onmitsu
One of the audience members stepped up and pulled out an actual blade and said "whadya do against a 'real' knife". The martial artist doing the demo snatched up a metal folding chair and layed out the would be attacker.

WWEjutsu! :D

In my original post I was just thinking of situations that occured during enbu, and from the audience. But after reading some of the later posts, it made me think of some of the other disruptors from within. During a shiai, we had this one parent go absolutely bonkers that his kid didn't win a medal. This guy was always considered a nuisance anyways, wasn't one of my favorites because he was the prototypical "sports parent". Of course, he singled out the smallest judge in the ring to start getting in his face. He quickly did an about face when he realized all the other rings had come to a halt and all the attention was now on him, and he was surrounded by a half a dozen black belts.... :rolleyes:

We have also had to physically restrain students who let things go a little too far in kumite. Even among students, there can be some serious disruptors.

[tallpaul50]

It appears we're getting a bit off the track and moving towards just hecklers in general, so here's a wee tale that happened to me a number of years ago.

I have been a judge and referree for about 20+ years at point tournaments. To me, it's a social outing and "playtime".

At this one tournament, this parent didn't like the way that I was calling points (there were 5 referrees total in that ring) for his son. Well, quite honestly, his son SUCKED and wasn't scoring anything remotely like a point.

This parent was getting down right rude and personal, and I was the center ref in the ring. I motioned the tournament promoter over during a break in the action and advised him of the situation..even turning and pointing directly at the parent while doing so. The promoter said they would watch and talk to the parent if they got out of hand.

The action in the ring continued, and when this parents kid got up for his next matchm, the parent said something I don't remember right now, but it was pretty bad and I lost it. I stopped the action right then and there, asked the competitors to turn away from the ring and sit down (so they didn't see this)..I stepped over the rope and walked right into the bleachers to this parent.

Now understand, I am 6'6" tall and weigh around 240lbs...so I'm not exactly a little fella. Anyway, I walked right up to this guy in the bleachers (the people parted like I was Moses and they were the Red Sea) and I told him..."Look, if you have a problem with how I'm doing my job, there (pointing at the promoter who was standing on the floor behind me) is the promotor of the tournament..take it up with him. In the mean time, shut your f**king MOUTH!" I said it very softly, but he got the idea.

I walked to my ring...just fuming!!! The promoter was talking to the guy as I got the ring going again, and I never heard another peep out of the guy.

Later, the promoter came up to me and told me he told the guy that if he didn't cool his mouth, both he AND his kid would be kicked out of the tournament. I found out also that the kid was one of he promotors students.

[tallpaul50]

It appears we're getting a bit off the track and moving towards just hecklers in general, so here's a wee tale that happened to me a number of years ago.

I have been a judge and referree for about 20+ years at point tournaments. To me, it's a social outing and "playtime".

At this one tournament, this parent didn't like the way that I was calling points (there were 5 referrees total in that ring) for his son. Well, quite honestly, his son SUCKED and wasn't scoring anything remotely like a point.

This parent was getting down right rude and personal, and I was the center ref in the ring. I motioned the tournament promoter over during a break in the action and advised him of the situation..even turning and pointing directly at the parent while doing so. The promoter said they would watch and talk to the parent if they got out of hand.

The action in the ring continued, and when this parents kid got up for his next matchm, the parent said something I don't remember right now, but it was pretty bad and I lost it. I stopped the action right then and there, asked the competitors to turn away from the ring and sit down (so they didn't see this)..I stepped over the rope and walked right into the bleachers to this parent.

Now understand, I am 6'6" tall and weigh around 240lbs...so I'm not exactly a little fella. Anyway, I walked right up to this guy in the bleachers (the people parted like I was Moses and they were the Red Sea) and I told him..."Look, if you have a problem with how I'm doing my job, there (pointing at the promoter who was standing on the floor behind me) is the promotor of the tournament..take it up with him. In the mean time, shut your f**king MOUTH!" I said it very softly, but he got the idea.

I walked to my ring...just fuming!!! The promoter was talking to the guy as I got the ring going again, and I never heard another peep out of the guy.

Later, the promoter came up to me and told me he told the guy that if he didn't cool his mouth, both he AND his kid would be kicked out of the tournament. I found out also that the kid was one of he promotors students.