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DJ Tucson
7th January 2004, 00:14
Can anyone tell me if there are sword arts that have fighting included in the teaching.

I know a lot of schools have some kind of goshin-ken and kendo is out there, but that is to sport like from everything I have see, (which is not to much).

I would like to know what is all out there. not that I am looking for more training. I am very happy with what I have and should spend more time going my kata rather then on EBUDO. ( Maybe I wouldn't have so many questions).

Brian Owens
7th January 2004, 01:56
If by "fighting" you me something like sparring in karate, only with swords, kendo is about the closest thing in Japanese sword arts that I know of. When you get into other sword arts, like iai-do/-jutsu, or that do cutting, like Toyama-ryu or Shinkendo, I think the pratice becomes more kata oriented.

There is something called Sports Chambara, a relative new-comer, that uses foam "swords" but I don't know much about it. Try a web search if you think that might be what you're looking for.

On the other hand, if by "fighting" you mean empty-hand fighting in addition to swordsmanship, then that's another matter. A few koryu have curricula that include a variety of weapons as well as unarmed techniques, and of course there are "ninja" systems. And some Aikido schools teach both empty-hand and sword/staff arts.

Not sure exactly what you're looking for, but I hope this helps.

Gene Gabel
7th January 2004, 08:49
Originally posted by DJ Tucson
Can anyone tell me if there are sword arts that have fighting included in the teaching.

I know a lot of schools have some kind of goshin-ken and kendo is out there, but that is to sport like from everything I have see, (which is not to much).

I would like to know what is all out there. not that I am looking for more training. I am very happy with what I have and should spend more time going my kata rather then on EBUDO. ( Maybe I wouldn't have so many questions).
...........................................

DJ...If you didn't ask, how would you get the answer you were looking for?Don't be wary of asking. It's the depth of the question that counts in this instance........

Maybe you could explain a little more in what you were looking for in an art..
There are lots of MAs out there that have sword work in them and this forum is full of knowledgeable people about a lot of them.
In MJER Iai(jutsu) there are disarms and types of close quarter grappeling that keep swords in mind. Quite a few Iaido styles have 2 person drills with bokken. There are Chinese styles that have all kinds of weapons (swords,single and double)that go along with the style. Korea has a sword style also (kumdo)
Give a long think on what you really want and post again.

Gene Gabel

Dan Harden
7th January 2004, 13:55
Simply put -all sword arts have fighting in them don't they? I leave it up to you to decide which ones may be more to the point than others.
If you mean freestyle-there are those who do that kind of work in-house, back behind the barn door, within their own ryu's technical syllibus to experiment. Ugh hm....I would not know who "they" are. But I know they exist. We've talked about it and shared-notes not techniques.


Cheers
Dan

Charlie Kondek
7th January 2004, 14:38
Yes, don't be afraid to ask, man.

I'll be the one who chimes in here and says kendo is not "too sport" in my opinion. Others feel it is so, I certainly don't, for reasons that have been stated here numerous times (do a search through some old threads to unearth some of the old arguments). Bottom line: whatever works for ya.

Behind-the-barn-door stuff is cool, too.

DJ Tucson
7th January 2004, 22:53
Thank you everyone I heard what I thought I would. Kendo is cool and all, but again what I've seen is hitting here counts hitting here does not and no attacks to the legs to many rules Kendo with no rules
is kind of what I was hoping for.

If your blasted on the armor you loss.
If your hit in any way where there is no armor you are dead or have 30 sec.
on a clash both guys loss.

mixed with Kata, Kuma tachi, and cutting.

I just don't understand why everyone doesn't have all four.

Maybe I will understand when I am 40 or 50!



ps sorry to all 40 & 50 folks!

Charlie Kondek
8th January 2004, 15:31
Couple o' quick points, my friend.

Kendo does not simulate armored battlefield combat, it simulates an unarmored duel.

If one wanted to be able to strike one's training partner anywhere from head to foot, they would have to armor themselves from head to foot. This is simply not practical for a variety of reasons, although I suppose someone might make a go of it.

Officially and in spirit, kendo is comprised of shinai kendo, kata, and setei iaido, which may include other kinds of iaido and may include tameshigiri. So one could conceivably "do it all," or close enough. This has been my path.

But again, it's a "whatever path up the mountain" situation. There are lots of reasons to personally dislike kendo besides the ones you raised. Just wanted to offer more information.

CEB
8th January 2004, 15:57
This is fun.

CEB
8th January 2004, 16:05
Or this

gendzwil
8th January 2004, 18:31
Originally posted by CEB
Or this [snip photo of SCA heavies]
The problem with SCA is the extreme variability of the instruction, as I understand it. The local guys here are, not to put too fine a point on it, not very good. If you want to learn how to fight well, you have way better odds of getting good instruction in the average fencing salle or kendo dojo. IMHO.

Cady Goldfield
8th January 2004, 20:49
Originally posted by DJ Tucson
Thank you everyone I heard what I thought I would. Kendo is cool and all, but again what I've seen is hitting here counts hitting here does not and no attacks to the legs to many rules Kendo with no rules
is kind of what I was hoping for.

If your blasted on the armor you loss.
If your hit in any way where there is no armor you are dead or have 30 sec.
on a clash both guys loss.

mixed with Kata, Kuma tachi, and cutting.

I just don't understand why everyone doesn't have all four.

Maybe I will understand when I am 40 or 50!

ps sorry to all 40 & 50 folks!

I'll overlook the "40 & 50" remark... :p

Why not do a search on "kenjutsu" and learn more about it? It may give you a better understanding of sword combat beyond sport kendo. However, I suspect that very few schools practice any kind of free sparring. Some do controlled sparring.