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Warwick
14th October 2000, 09:16
The thread on MSR/MJER etc and people's many interesting comments on the "correct" angle at which to wear a sword raised a question in my mind. I would be very interested in hearing other people's thoughts on the question below.

I think it's fair to say, after a four page thread on the subject, that some schools teach one thing, and other schools teach something else, and they are both "correct" within the confines of that ryu. (Now, I have an opinion on that previous topic, based on what I've been taught in Shinto Muso Ryu, but that specific subject has been covered pretty comprehensively I think, and I don't want to re-open it here.) What I am interested in is this.

It seems that there are quite a large number of people here who practice more than one ryu. Do those of you (us?) in that category differentiate clearly between the way things are done in one ryu and the way the same things are done in the other(s)? For example (and this is only one example; hopefully people will suggest many others) if you practice one ryu in which the sword is worn across the body, do you take that to be the "correct" position and do the same in other ryu also, or do you keep the forms distinct? Other examples might be to do with footwork, posture, the shape of cuts, timing, breathing, etc. I don't want to get into a debate about which method is correct, but about whether there is a merging or synthesis of previously distinct ryu. Or are you careful to only practice "compatible" ryu where this is not an issue?

I want to be perfectly clear from the outset that I am not thinking of any particular group or person, and I do not want to imply any critisism of any person or group. There are issues here touching on the purposes for studying a particular ryu, and people may well have different views on the subject. Hopefully we can discuss them politely, without hostility or animosity.

What do you all think?

By the way, how exactly do you include the little smiley-face icons?

Warwick Hooke

Warwick
14th October 2000, 09:20
Maybe I should say how do you include a smiley-face icon at any point in the text of a message?

Warwick Hooke

Cady Goldfield
14th October 2000, 12:29
Originally posted by Warwick
Maybe I should say how do you include a smiley-face icon at any point in the text of a message?

Warwick Hooke

Go to the "smilies guide" page -- the link appears at the top of every "Reply" and "Post" page when you respond to or create a message. Basically, a "smilie" is coded by using a colon -- : -- and the closing end of a set of parentheses -- ) -- so it looks like a little smiling face lying on its side. A winky face uses a semicolon -- ; -- Get it? :)

john mark
14th October 2000, 13:45
Originally posted by Warwick

It seems that there are quite a large number of people here who practice more than one ryu. Do those of you (us?) in that category differentiate clearly between the way things are done in one ryu and the way the same things are done in the other(s)?

Warwick Hooke

Hi Warwick,

I try but for me it is very difficult. I can't count the number of times Diane and Meik have admonished me for swinging a stick in an aiki fashion.

My most difficult experience with trying to learn multiple but related styles was this summer. After practicing seite gata version 5.5 for two days at the US Kendo Fed Iaido seminar, I discovered that my MSR and seite gata (version 1.3) form got really screwed up. Its hard enough distinguishing between Mae (version 1.3) and Shohatto as it is. Try this experiment: perfom Ushiro (ZNKR seite gata you pick the version) 25 times and then immediately perform Atarito. Be honest with yourself and ask if Atarito was performed correctly.

Check out what Nishioka Sensei http://koryu.com/library/tnishioka1.html has to say about learning the same ryu from two teachers. I think I read an article by Mr. Admur where he touches upon the subject; can't seem to find the reference. There's also a related thread in the Jo Section on this subject http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=695 .


Best,

John "A Bombers and a Walabies Fan (Except at the 7s)" Mark

[Edited by john mark on 10-14-2000 at 08:04 AM]

john mark
18th October 2000, 12:13
Originally posted by john mark
[QUOTE]

I think I read an article by Mr. Admur where he touches upon the subject; can't seem to find the reference.

Found it!

"Koryu Meets the West", Ellis Amdur,Koryu Bujutsu: Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan, Edited by Diane Skoss, Published by Koryu Books, ISBN: 1-890536-04-0

It's worth a close read.

Best,

Richard A Tolson
18th October 2000, 18:45
John,
You should read Amdur Sensei's new book DUELING WITH O-SENSEI: GRAPPLING WITH THE MYTH OF THE WARRIOR SAGE. It is excellent!
If you are interested in ordering it, you can do so at http://www.ellisamdur.com/duelingwithosensei

RDeppe
18th October 2000, 22:22
I think most everyone will have the same story. Cross training presents problems-- we try to keep each style seperate. With aikido it's not as much a problem. I don't feel horrible if my koryu jo or sword stuff modifies my movement-- although even here there are limits.

I find that I have preferences, but still try to keep things seperate; although, I too get admonishments that "we don't hold the sword that way in this class."

BTW, I occasionally hear bad things about aikido from the koryu guys-- but it's exacty this topic that makes me glad to be doing aikido. I get a lot freedom to experiment with difference motions, etc. in aikido class. I know this might just reinforce some opinions, but I really value it.

My two cents.

[Edited by RDeppe on 10-18-2000 at 04:26 PM]

Sheridan
19th October 2000, 01:05
I'm one of those lucky people that has access to multiple styles of budo and bujutsu within the same dojo. Because some of them are Koryu, each is taught sperately from the others. Ie.: Ryu-ha A, sword is held straight out from the obi. Ryu-ha B, sword is held at a 45 degree angle.
As long as the kata remain pure, then I'm not diluting either ryu-ha one iota and keep the spirit of both intact. My own personal style changes but how could it not? I react to a situation one day with kata X from ryu-ha A and the next day with kata Y from ryu-ha B.
As for compatible ryu-ha I've found a good balance for myself by training in opposite ends of the spectrum.