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Tim Mailloux
15th January 2004, 18:19
Does anybody know of a resource that lists the MSR waza names and the corresponding MJER waza names? Or vice versa?

Chidokan
15th January 2004, 18:42
never seen both together, only seperate. Here's minefor MJER (should really get round to finishing the site as well...)

http://chidokan.tripod.com/chidokandojo/id8.html

Senjojutsu
15th January 2004, 18:44
Shoden level
The set of Ômori-Ryû Waza from the 9th Dai, Hayashi Rokudayû Morimasa, via his study under Ômori Rokûrozaemon:

1. Mae   versus   Shohattô
2. Migi   versus   Satô
3. Hidari   versus   Utô
4. Ushiro   versus   Atari-tô
5. Yaegaki
  a - Omote   versus   Inyô Shintai
  b - Ura   versus   Gyaku Inyô Shintai
6. Ukenagashi   versus   Ryûtô
7. Kaishaku   versus   Juntô
8. Tsukekomi   versus   Gyakutô
9. Tsukikage   versus   Shinchûtô or Seichutô
10. Oikaze   versus   Korantô
11. Nukiuchi   versus   Battô

The second name listed (ex. Shohatto) are the older naming conventions prior to Oe Masamichi, 17th Grandmaster.

MSR dojos typically still uses those previous names, while MJER uses the more modern names.

Normally 5b, Gyaku Inyo Shintai is taught as the 11th waza within MSR syllabus, then followed by Batto.

The Chuden level - the Tatehiza posture waza, introduced by 7th Dai, Hasegawa Eishin Shûzei no Suke, have the same waza names.

The Okuden level also will have waza name variances between the ryu (about 50% of the time) but let's see other people's responses.

Tim Mailloux
15th January 2004, 18:48
Originally posted by Senjojutsu
Shoden level
The set of Ômori-Ryû Waza from the 9th Dai, Hayashi Rokudayû Morimasa, via his study under Ômori Rokûrozaemon:

1. Mae   versus   Shohattô
2. Migi   versus   Satô
3. Hidari   versus   Utô
4. Ushiro   versus   Atari-tô
5. Yaegaki
  a - Omote   versus   Inyô Shintai
  b - Ura   versus   Gyaku Inyô Shintai
6. Ukenagashi   versus   Ryûtô
7. Kaishaku   versus   Juntô
8. Tsukekomi   versus   Gyakutô
9. Tsukikage   versus   Shinchûtô or Seichutô
10. Oikaze   versus   Korantô
11. Nukiuchi   versus   Battô

Second name listed (ex. Shohatto) are the older naming conventions prior to Oe Masamichi, 17th Grandmaster.

MSR dojos typically still uses those previous names, while MJER use the more modern names.

Normally 5b, Gyaku Inyo Shintai is taught as the 11th waza within MSR syllabus, then followed by Batto.

The Chuden level - the Tatehiza posture waza, introduced by 7th Dai Hasegawa Eishin Shûzei no Suke have the same waza names.

The Okuden level also will have waza name variances between the ryu (about 50% of the time) but let's see other people's responses.

Thanks
This is just what I was looking for

ulvulv
15th January 2004, 21:17
Originally posted by Chidokan
never seen both together, only seperate. Here's minefor MJER (should really get round to finishing the site as well...)

http://chidokan.tripod.com/chidokandojo/id8.html

Nice overview, the names in okuden are the same as in my "book", but there is one I cant find, in msr okuden suwariwasa we have as our nr 4 "sodome", against a series of three attackers coming from below.
Now, I have seen a hachidan mjer doing that kata. have just I ignored it on your list, does it perhaps have another name ??

Andy Watson
16th January 2004, 09:27
I agree, Sodome seems to be missing.

Or did you remove it because it has rude connotations???

Senjojutsu
16th January 2004, 13:05
The Okuden level names from Hayashizaki-Ryû Waza, from the founder Hayashizaki Jinsuke Shigenobu:


Current name     versus     Previous name

Tachiwaza:
1. Yukizure    versus     Yukizure
2. Tsuredachi    versus     Tsuredachi
3. Sômakuri    versus     Gôhogiri
4. Sôdome    versus     Hanashiuchi
5. Shinobu    versus   Yoru no Tachi
6. Yukichigai    versus    Yukichigai
7. Sode Surigaeshi    versus    Ken no Koto
8. Moniri    versus    Kakuresute
9. Kabezoe    versus     Hito Naka
10. Ukenagashi     versus    Yurumi Nuki
11. Itomagoi (Seiza waza)    versus    Itomagoi (Seiza waza)

Suwariwaza:
1. Kasumi    versus    Mukôbarai
2. Sunegakoi    versus    Tsukadome
3. Shihôgiri    versus    Shisumi
4. Tôzume    versus    Misumi
5. Tôwaki    versus    Mukôzume
6. Tanashita    versus    Tanashita
7. Ryôzume    versus    Ryôzume
8. Torabashiri    versus    Torabashiri

Senjojutsu
16th January 2004, 13:15
I agree, Sodome seems to be missing.
Or did you remove it because it has rude connotations???
Andy,

Funny that you mention this, because now that I think about it, male students always seem to be able to remember that waza's name (Sodome) first before all the other Okuden level names...   innate mnemonics maybe?
:p   :D

ulvulv
16th January 2004, 13:32
Originally posted by Senjojutsu
Andy,

Funny that you mention this, because now that I think about it, male students always seem to be able to remember that waza's name (Sodome) first before all the other Okuden level names...   innate mnemonics maybe?
:p   :D

it is more about omote versus ura preferences
;)

Chidokan
16th January 2004, 22:44
that'll teach me to rush my typing wont it...:D Now I'll DEFINITELY have to go in and edit the list! I was also going to add the missing partner work I havent listed yet, tsumi ai no kurai etc...there goes another ten minutes of my life....:rolleyes:

SLeclair
18th January 2004, 16:59
The eikoku roshukai (at http://www.eikoku-roshukai.com/) has a great list of sword forms for MJER from different sources. It can be found at http://www.eikoku-roshukai.com/compilationofswordforms.pdf from their MJER section.

Not affiliated with them in any way. But I've done research on our waza, found their list, and I think it's better than most of the stuff out there.