Olympic Style Karate - Yes or No ?

[Prince Loeffler]

I just got done reading a Martial Arts magazine and one article got my interest. If this subject is already the oldest and overly discussed subject. Please accept my apology in advance. The question posed is “Does Karate Belong in the Olympic ?”

The Magazines asked a variety of Karate masters what they think and frankly it was fascinating to see their response. Unfortunately, the comment by these masters are too long for me to type in here.

So what does the majority of The E-Budo citizens think ? Should Karate be an Olympic Sport like Tae Kwon Do ?

[n2shotokai]

Originally posted by Prince Loeffler
Should Karate be an Olympic Sport like Tae Kwon Do ? Excuse me! But those words should not be in the same sentence! ;)

[Prince Loeffler]

I am ready for my push ups now Sensei Beale:D

[Markaso]

Uh ..... in a word ........ No. I think that Karate has become too much of a sport already. As for judging......That brings up a big can of worms. Rules??? Another can.

[tamashi]

I think it would be easier to have Kickboxing
be in the olympics. it is already a sport!
once a uniform set of rules was decided,
like K-1 style rules, then it would be ready.

[RobertW]

Too much difference in the rules between what some would call Karate and some would call sports.
Many people will say things like "The four main style of Karate are Shotokan Shito ryu Wado and Shotokan" Wher is Shorin ryu the Parent style to Shotokan, or Kyokushin (proven), or Uechi ryu? No mention of Goju in that statement. I got this form a website-I will not say which one.
I use this as an example. I find it extremely unlikely that rteps from ALL styles wou7ld judge and come up with rules. It goes against the very foundation of what Karate is. So this practitioner says
NO!:smash:

[Budoka 34]

Actually Robert Shotokan, Goju ryu, Wado ryu, and Shito ryu are considered by most to be the tradition "root" schools of Japanese karate or at least that's what we rocognize.

George Anderson Hanshi and The USAKF did most of the ground work to have karate recognized as Olympic sport.
They achieved getting it recognized by the IOC and USOC(to the amazement of many) and entered into the Pan-American Games.

Now with TaeKwonDo admitted I really doubt that karate (kumite) will ever be.
I think Sport Jujitsu has a much more realistic chance of being recognized internationally.

(IMHO)As to whether karate should be Olympic sport or not it is just one small aspect of a very large and deeply rooted tradition and as long as we keep that alive the rest is just appearance.;)

:smilejapa

[RobertW]

You say Japanese, yet however, if one is going to Admit Karate into the olympics one must go back and realize the ROOT of Japanese Karate comes from Okinawa. Okinawa is part of Japan so I think ideally the root of these system is Goju and Shorin. A large contribution to Shotokan comes form Itosu, and hence Shorin ryu.
Wado is newer than all schools mentioned so how can it be root?

[Jock Armstrong]

They should just have an MA comp. Design some rules and then stick to them. Train refs- its not that hard. Then, anyone,regardless of style can be chosen for the national team. Hang on, that would mean that no one style could be in charge, push their own agenda etc- what was I thinking!!

the reality is that karate will never be in the Olympics because a bunch of political fools won't be able to stop squabbling about who is the "real" karate. My system ran lots of "open" tourneys in the eighties and nineties successfully by having a simple set of rules and held ref seminars [free] to get enough officials. But hell what do I know.

[Jock Armstrong]

PS the last comp I was involved in running was attended by 300+ competitors, some of whom travelled over 600 km [one way].

If you build it, they will come................

[tamashi]

the rules would be quite important though.

assuming that this ever happend, would they
just adopt the WUKO style?

if so, all people who do Knockdown fighting would have
no interst and no motivation to go to the Olympics.

if they adopted Knockdown rules such as; Kyokushin,
World Oyama, Ashihara, Enshin, SeidoKaikan etc use,
then very few point fighting systems etc would be intersted.

lots of quibbling over level of contact, areas allowed
to strike at, point system used , grabbing etc etc.......

I dont see it happening.

[Budoka 34]

Robert,

I guess I got my roots crossed!:)

Yes Japanese Karate originated on Okinawa but it has developed into it's own style and feel. It is somewhat different from traditional (old school)Okinawan karate both in practice and spirit.
Okinawa-te (Ryukyuan empty hand arts) were probably deeply influenced by Chuan-fa (of China) but they have developed into their own art similar but different.

The most recognized schools of "traditonal" Japanese Karate are still Shotokan, Shito Ryu, Wado Ryu and Goju Ryu.
Wether you look at Kyokushinkai, Wadokai, Seibukan, etc. etc. they all grew out of one of these four. Even though Wado grew out of Shotokan it is considered seperate because of it's Shindo Yoshi Ryu Jiujitsu influences. Some people consider it the only truely Japanese style of Karate.

We could talk about Shorei-te, Naha-te, and Tomari-te or the idea of Shorin and Shorei all day long but it does not change the fact that Japanese Karate is "Japanese" Karate.;)

But seriously, when I speak of "deeply rooted tradtion" I mean the empty hand martial arts, wether we believe the root to be Japan, Okinawa, China, Manchuria, India, or Africa is irrelivant, what matters is that we keep the traditions as handed down to us alive, what ever they may be.

If we make Karate sport and agree to one standard, so be it, but don't surrender your tradition in the process.

If we want to see where that will take us just look at "modern" TaeKwonDo.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters any more than they already where.

Maybe someone more qualified like Gene, Harry or Patrick could weigh in.



:smilejapa

[tamashi]

I used to think karate in the Olympics
would be intersting. not any longer.

Like i said Earlier, Maybe Kickboxing instead
as there are fewer styles, and as long as
rules were agreed on, then style would not matter.
I mean sure there is Pure Muay Thai, there is
not leg kicking like American "Full Contact" etc.

but there are not 100s of styles of Kickboxing.

my 2 cents
:D

[Markaso]

Originally posted by Markaso
Uh ..... in a word ........ No. I think that Karate has become too much of a sport already. As for judging......That brings up a big can of worms. Rules??? Another can.

Yep, I am going to do it...that's clarify my own statement. I think that Karate has become to much of a compitition between others where the true compitition in any art,I beleive, is within ones self. How do you judge that?

[Shikiyanaka]

Isn't it the case that Karate together with Wushu are the two of the disciplines which are put up for for further review for the olympics???

See HERE (http://www.funakoshi.de/Berichte/Olympia.htm)

[Budoka 34]

I know Wushu will be a demonstration art in the 2008 Olympics in China.

My nephew has a good chance of making the U.S. team!:D
He trained with the Chinese team in Beijing last year and they thought he was Chinese!

Ooops, thread drift.;)



:smilejapa

[Martin H]

Originally posted by tamashi
the rules would be quite important though.

assuming that this ever happend, would they
just adopt the WUKO style?

if so, all people who do Knockdown fighting would have
no interst and no motivation to go to the Olympics.

if they adopted Knockdown rules such as; Kyokushin,
World Oyama, Ashihara, Enshin, SeidoKaikan etc use,
then very few point fighting systems etc would be intersted.

lots of quibbling over level of contact, areas allowed
to strike at, point system used , grabbing etc etc.......

I dont see it happening.

The WKF (formerly known as WUKO, although the rules has changed since then) rules has already been accepted by the International olympic commitee. And is now a olypic sport, although it is not on the olympic program.
If karate ever is added to the olympic program, it will be with these rules.

Personaly I cant decide if olympic karate is a good thing. Yes we would see large financial backing and a tremendeous improvement in WKF point style karate fighters (I refuse to use the word "players" even though it is becomming more popular), but it would be at the cost of both traditional practice and kumite of other types. It would realy be bad for styles where WKF rules are not used.

[MarkF]

The only reason Japanese (Okinawan) Karate didn't make it to the 2000 games in Sydney, is because the Korean Karate folks came up with twice the money. It really is simpler than it appears.

BTW: Jujutsu has virtually no chance of making it into the Olympics. They all ready have Jacketed wrestling. I think it is called Judo?

Whatever the opinion, I think karate has the same chance as does jujutsu. I don't say that because I think I'm right, only that it has an equal chance, but Rugby probably has a better chance than does karate or the JJFI, or many others under consideration.

Now that is a game I may even tune into and watch.


Mark

[Budoka 34]

Indrid,(Mothman Prophecies?)

Yes, I do believe what I typed. They are recognized by the WKF as traditional "Japanese" Karate ryu.
As to Karate athletes that "would have the mustard" to make it at the olympic level, well let's see, Dustin Baldis (trains Olympians and professional athletes from several sports), Tokey Hill, George Kotaka, Tommy Hood, Elisa Au, Maile Chinen, John Fonseca, etc. etc. etc.....
If you doubt they are world class athletes try one of Dustins seminars.
The Europeans and Americans are the primary forces behind the move to include "sport Karate" in the olympics. Most of the Japanese "Masters" seem to be opposed to it's inclusion.

To be truthful I don't care one way or the other. It's just one more thing to train for.



:smilejapa

[aiki_uke]

http://www.worldgames-iwga.org/vsite/vcontent/page/custom/0,8510,1044-127187-128494-18063-62414-custom-item,00.html

:(

[Jay Vail]

Karate is already in a bad way because of its increasing emphasis on sport fighting. It would be worse if it became an Olympic sport. As a MARTIAL art, judo shot itself in the head when it became an Olympic sport. After that, sport oriented stuff is all the judo guys have trained for. They largely ignore the considerable body of techniques that are effective in combat. Karate would be the same. It will die as a martial art. I won't come to the funeral.

[Budoka 34]

Jay I see your point,
but If you'll look you will see that many Japanese warrior arts have become sports i.e. Kendo, Naginatado, Kyudo, Judo, and Sumo being the oldest.

This did not lead to the death of Kenjutsu, Naginatajutsu, Jiujitsu as true martial arts.
Even the Korean art of Taekwondo still has some hardcore hold outs here and in Korea.
I train both sport and goshin Karate, Judo and Jiujitsu.
It's up to us to keep the old schools and ideas alive, not at the cost of, but at the further benifit to developing the sport potential.

Think about it, even in the military I think I used the martial arts for self-defense maybe three times, but I've competed in dozens of tournaments.
That doesn't mean I take the self-defense any less serious, it does mean I balance my "old style" training with modern sport techniques.
I do "old school" Okinawan Hojo Undo and bone conditioning three days a week and modern plyometrics and speed drills another two to three days.

IMHO: It's all about maintaining traditions and personal growth at the same time.

We need to pass on both, tradition and growth, to future generations.

:smilejapa