Diff in Jap. vs Oki. Teaching?

[BULLDOG]

Hello,

Is there a general different approach in how one is taught in Japanese style vs. an Okinawa style?

I have recently entered a Shuri-ryu Dojo and my background is in the Japanese’s arts. I respect the head instructor and her Black belts –but- there is a difference.

I know that each dojo is different and each instructor is different. I am looking for a possible comparison on similarity or difference.

Thank you for your input.

Ed Barton

[Blackwood]

I think the 'difference' is probably due more to the instructor then to the style. The vast majority of styles follow a pretty similar process, based on the traditions.

My experience in a Japanese dojo and two different Okinawan styles is that they run pretty similar. One of the Okinawan schools was the strictest in formalities, to the point of having seperate dressing rooms for the black belts. My current Okinawan dojo is much less strict than any of the others, but there are specific rules and you will incur the rath of the seniors if you break them.

To some the formalities are almost as important as the skills they learn. To others the formalities are just something one must endure to get to the 'good stuff.'

I don't feel one can really understand the origins of a style without understanding the protocols that go with it and the past history.

[Rob Alvelais]

I'm sorry, but Shuri Ryu isn't a Okinawan style. It was a style created by Mr. Robert Trias. If anything, given that Mr. Trias claimed Yasuhiro Konishi as his instr and mentor, that would make it a Japanese style, if it was an asian style at all. IMO, as it was Mr. Trias' creation, it's indeed an American style, based upon the principles of traditional Japanese karate. That's not to say that his creation was garbage, because clearly it's not. I've encountered many fine shuri ryu stylists, who are as precise in their kata as anyone, and who can rock and roll with the best of them. But, an Okinawan style, it is not.

Rob

[Daniel Kogan]

I would suggest that there is quite a large distinction between traditional Okinawan dojo and Japanese dojo. Please note I make a distinction between "traditional Okinawan Dojo" and "Dojo on Okianwa". There are many dojo in Okinawa today that teach and train like Japanese sports karate, since in effect that is what they do.

But, for Traditional Okinawan dojo, it is much more about the teacher student relationship, than about the group, the class or a hierarchy. Japanese schools are usually a pyramid structure: where the sensei will teach the seniors and the seniors will push the juniors. In a traditional Okinawan dojo, much like old style Chinese schools, people don’t' care much about what the person next to them is doing (as long as they don't disrespect the teacher or school and that usually doesn’t last long if they do :) ) students in an Okinawan dojo are uniquely concerned with what the teacher is doing, not with what the other students are doing.

As for the formality, traditional schools tend to be much less rigid with standing in straight lines or starting class on time, but they are much more concerned about behaving correctly towards the teacher and how you conduct yourself while training. This is particularly so when teaching and learning Ti.

With respect to the conversation about special dressing rooms; this is so foreign to a traditional dojo that I won't address it other than saying, that more often than not dojo don't have changing rooms in Okinawa, never mind special changing rooms for Yudansha.

Daniel Kogan
Kokusai Shinjinbukan
www.okinawakaratedo.com

[Timothy.G.B.]

In my limited experience of both Japanese style and Okinawan teachers the biggest difference has been in how the question of "why" is addressed.

In the Japanese style (I say style because the instructors were not Japanese people but rather the style was Japanese)the question of "why" was definitely not encouraged...to put it mildly. I experienced it as the "you will know when you are ready" approach and I (the instructor) will tell you when you are ready to know. Whether intended or not the feeling was that one should never really ask why, especially if and when the first answer didn't make any sense :(

In my experience with the teaching style in Okinawan karate, which I am trying to learn, the question of "why" is dealt with differently. Namely, the view is that if the student is thinking enough about their karate to ask the question, then they deserve an answer. My experience of this has been that sometimes answers to questions become so detailed that they can last an entire portion of a class!

Perhaps the difference can be attributed to the different instructors but suffice to say I have learned a tremendous amount after asking why, now that I am learning Okinawan Karate! I may not always be able to incorporate the answers to what I am practicing now, but I always try to remember them for later :)

My experience may not be indicative of other people's so I offer it as one among many.

Tim Black

[Blackwood]

Thank you all for the discussion!

I am currently in what would be termed using the above as a Traditional Okinawan style. Pay attention to the lead instructor, not those around you. Class is seldom started on time, but the learning is good.

And asking questions is encouraged, as long as there was some sense of actual thought behind it and not nebulous BS. I asked a question about the first move of Kihon Kata Ichi that sparked a 15 minute discussion/demonstration with two Godans. And it was very enlightening!

[chizikunbo]

With this subject I beleive it would differ from the style and the dojo, I dont beleive that you can actually get an answer to this question that would be not be wrong when compared to another style or the same style different dojos:smilejapa

[Old Dragon]

As this thread has gone on there have been a couple of people talk about the difference between the two. If you read between the lines of those that said Okinawan dojo were not as rigid you will realize that the two cultures are very different.

Okinaw time, its a catch phrase. It means "Sensei said he'd be back after lunch".......... the student thinks to him self........ "sheesh if thats okinawan time he might be home by dinner"


Okinawa dojo are more laid back than the japanese. They are an island off the coast of Japan and not of the same cultural background. At one time they were enemies. They may look the same but the distinct difference in cultures comes through in the general style of the dojo.

Also once again as Mr. Kogan said, you will find many Okinawa dojo practicing today as if they were Japanese sport karate.

Mike O'leary

[tsurashi shondo]

My exposure to Okinawan stylists has been limited to meeting / learning from them at seminars or guest appearances at other dojo.
I felt that they were more open ("like an !!! kicking Uncle"?) than Japanese teachers.
I found they were more like Kung-fu Sifu I have trained with,maybe more "familial" with the students. More patient as well I think...hmmm.

[Old Dragon]

Originally posted by tsurashi shondo
My exposure to Okinawan stylists has been limited to meeting / learning from them at seminars or guest appearances at other dojo.
I felt that they were more open ("like an !!! kicking Uncle"?) than Japanese teachers.
I found they were more like Kung-fu Sifu I have trained with,maybe more "familial" with the students. More patient as well I think...hmmm.


I agree totally as to the attitude you speak of. I cannot compare to Japanese or even Kung fu stylists but definatly the Okinawans are open and patient. At least many of the ones I have encountered. I have a kobudo sensei who is a very quiet man, patitent and who likes to smile alot. He is very personable and friendly and has lots of time for those that are struggling and wish to learn.

Mike O'Leary

[tsurashi shondo]

And more willing to show the "why", ie: explaining the effects of techniques on the internal organs and such, even when teaching lower ranks.

[Old Dragon]

Originally posted by tsurashi shondo
And more willing to show the "why", ie: explaining the effects of techniques on the internal organs and such, even when teaching lower ranks.


Yes: In fact It has been my experience with all of whom I have met who were either trained for long periods of time (more than 5 years) on Okinawa or Born there that to them karate is about application of kata. The impression I have is that to them all you need to learn is in the kata, distancing, movement, balance as well as technique.


Mike O'leary