31 count jo kata

[chizikunbo]

Does anyone know any good places on the net too learn any jo katas preferably the 31 count aikido kata?
Thanks,

[Brian Owens]

I don't know of an internet site, but Dave Lowry's book Jo has what he calls San-ju-ichi-renshu (he says it's not a kata), which closely resembles what I learned as Sanjuichi-no-jo kata. (His opening movement is a little different, and his counting points are a little different. Other than that, it's the same.)

You might also try some of the sites that sell martail arts videos, particularly in the Aikido section, to see if they have videos available. (I've never looked, so I don't know.)

Good luck.

[chizikunbo]

thanks i guess that I will buy that book, also do you know what style that is(in which you learned it)?

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by chizikunbo
thanks i guess that I will buy that book...
The first of Mr. Lowry's books that I read was Autumn Lightning, a combination autobiography and Yagyu history. I liked it very much, and that led me to buy Jo, and the companion book Bokken. I don't know if they are all still in print, but Amazon.com should have them if you can't find them locally.

Originally posted by chizikunbo
...also do you know what style that is (in which you learned it)? I studied Seiki Ryu Kenjutsu/Jodo, a Gendai Budo founded my Minoru Kurita Shihan, 8th Dan, who branched off from the Aikikai after O-sensei's death in 1969. Kurita Sensei studied Aikido under O-sensei, and Shin Shin Toitsudo under Tempu Nakamura, and had a family history of swordsmanship as well, although I never learned what style. His ken and jo reflected the combined influence of all his studies, and that's why it varies somewhat from other styles.

[chizikunbo]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
The first of Mr. Lowry's books that I read was Autumn Lightning, a combination autobiography and Yagyu history. I liked it very much, and that led me to buy Jo, and the companion book Bokken. I don't know if they are all still in print, but Amazon.com should have them if you can't find them locally.
I studied Seiki Ryu Kenjutsu/Jodo, a Gendai Budo founded my Minoru Kurita Shihan, 8th Dan, who branched off from the Aikikai after O-sensei's death in 1969. Kurita Sensei studied Aikido under O-sensei, and Shin Shin Toitsudo under Tempu Nakamura, and had a family history of swordsmanship as well, although I never learned what style. His ken and jo reflected the combined influence of all his studies, and that's why it varies somewhat from other styles.
I have found them they are both still inprint, thanks.
Also you style is it like ryukyu kempo, the same as Shigeru Nakamura? Is there a connection?

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by chizikunbo
...Also you style is it like ryukyu kempo, the same as Shigeru Nakamura? Is there a connection?
No connection that I am aware of. Nakamura Tempu founded Shin Shin Toitsudo, The Way of Mind/Body Coordination, and is considered the "Father of Japanese Yoga." He had a strong influence on Kurita Sensei and Koichi Tohei Sensei, and when the latter two left the Aikikai after O-sensei's death they formed the Ki Society. Then a few years later Kurita Sensei left the Ki Society to form Seiki Kai.

My style, Seiki Ryu, was Kurita Sensei's sword and staff art, which we considered to be a form of Aikiken & Aikijo, although it was more like traditional kenjutsu and jojutsu than most other Aikiken and Aikijo I have seen. Our training included ken versus ken, and ken versus jo kata; ken and jo solo kata; and iaijutsu. At advanced levels we also had tameshigiri and unarmed versus ken methods (Muto-dori).

For more information on Nakamura Tempu, click here: Shin Shin Toitsu Aikido (http://www.stlki.org/nakamura.shtml)

[chizikunbo]

Oh, I see

[lehndal]

You may be interested in the following sites:

http://217.215.33.241/jak/film/Jo%2031%20Hiroaki.wmv
Where Hiroaki sensei and Koyanagi Shunichiro shows 31 kata (complete with counterkata)

http://217.215.33.241/jak/film/Jo%2013%20Pal.wmv
Shows them doing 13-kata with counterkata

http://217.215.33.241/jak/film/Jo%2022%20Hiroaki.wmv
Show 22-kata with Hiroaki sensei and Per Wallvide, a Swedish aikidoka

Good luck!

[chizikunbo]

cool thanks everyone

[ulvulv]

This is not meant as a disrespectful provocation, just a curious question from an aiki ignorasimus:

Is this how the kata should be done? I get no feeling of fight, seme, intent or whatsoever. It is more like two badmintonplayers, plying the ball back and forth without trying to score a point or beat the opponent. Very smooth and elegant, but i
it has no resemblance to the fighting spirit that is so crucial in those katabased arts I have either seen, or practised: smr-jodo, tskrn bujutsu, kendokata. The maxime that we often hear: "do kata like shiai and shiai like kata", does hardly apply here.
With all respect, I have to little knowledge of aikijo and aikido to know which ideas that this kata is build on, I learned one side of the kata in my 3-4 years of aikido 10-15 years ago, but I have forgotten most of it. Maybe someone with a deeper knowledge of aikido, and also some knowledge of weapon arts that seem more "raw and juicy" would care to comment?

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by ulvulv
This is not meant as a disrespectful provocation, just a curious question from an aiki ignorasimus: Is this how the kata should be done?
I can't speak for other schools, of course, but in my school this would not have been an example of how it should be done.

Once the basic movements of the form had been learned, the form would have been done with more speed, more extension, and more "focus" (kime).

Since these video clips didn't show any of the opening or closing sequences, maybe it's just "in class" video of beginner's training.

Of curse there is a lot of variation in the way different Aikido teachers approach ken and jo training.

I have a professionally produced video of one well known Aikido teacher doing what he calls "bo" kata (actually a jo), and it it quite different from what I learned.

It's done relatively fast, but the jo is held quite close to the body and the "stikes" are much more circular and "flowing" than the way it was done in my school.

I haven't personally practiced jo with any other groups, but I did see a demo by some of Phil Relnick Sensei's SMR students a few months ago, and what I learned looked a lot more like what they did than like what this Aikido teacher did, as far as "intent" and "feel" -- though not in the actual kata -- at least from my position as an uninformed outsider.

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
...Of curse there is a lot of variation in the way different Aikido teachers approach ken and jo training...
That should have read "Of course..." not "Of curse..." Maybe a Freudian slip?

I also wanted to add something, but the edit timer cut me off.

That is:

One way isn't neccesarily better or worse than another, just a difference in purpose.

And of course an outsiders opinion like mine isn't really worth much when viewing someone else's practice. There's a really good essay on the problems of evaluating other's Budo practice in Volume 3 (I think) of Diane Skoss' Koryu Bujutsu series.

There. Did I confuse the issue enough?

[chrismoses]

To me it looks like they were taking it slow to make it clear what they were doing. I have no way of knowing if this is how they generally practice. Many Aikidoka never get much beyond this level of intensity. Where Brian trained, there was much more emphasis on kihon-waza (WRT weapons) than any other Aikido school I'm familiar with. This gave them the base skils to build up to a good intensity level safely. This entire kata would be considered kihon at most Aikido schools. I have seen it taught to new people after 2 minutes of learning how to tsuki-kabute-tsuki. This gets people through the kata quickly, but does not generally teach the core movements with enough clarity to develop a good understanding of what they are doing and how to do it effectively. Imagine what kendo would look like if your first day you strapped on bogu and your Sensei just said, "Ok, try to hit him on the head, and scream a lot! Gambate!" That's exactly how most people learn "weapons" in Aikido.

[lehndal]

These examples are not meant to show "how the kata should be done” but rather a step-by-step instruction of how they c a n be done. In this case assuming that you practice counterkata with jo.

You can do the katas single kihon, with partner with jo and with partner with bokken. This would be three different forms of the same basic kata. Add to this that different senseis show the forms after their own mind & taste and it adds up to quite a number of ways to do them. I myself do three 22-no jo kihon, two of them quite similar but the third very different from the first two.

The katas shown in these clips show the jo-katas as done in the Kobayashi dojos (Hiroaki-san is the son of Kobayashi-sensei as well as he is a gifted sensei in his own right). They are made slow as they are purely instructional. No “fighting spirit” intended.

[ulvulv]

The answers make perfectly sense.

It is obvious that these guys know what they are doing, and it would be nice to see the katas done at full speed and intent with the same people.

[lehndal]

Roar; You could "gå på tur" to Kodaira dojo (http://www.cup.com/kobayashi-dojo/english/index(en).htm), but Japan is so far away. Hiroaki sensei does come to Stockholm every now and then. Se http://www.iyasaka.se/ for camp information.

As far as I know, Koyanagi Shunichiro-san has never been visiting Sweden, but Per Wallvide is at Iyasaka dojo all the time.... You are more then welcome to visit them!