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ChrisBeattie
19th October 2000, 18:32
Apologies if this is a re-hash of a previous thread.

I was at Western Regionals, and even though I only participated in the kata division, I had a great time. I was a bit surprised though that Sierra and I were the only women swinging sharp pointy sticks there. Anyone have any theories on why the sword arts aren't more popular among women?

I've dabbled in a few martial arts, and the men always outnumber the women, but it's certainly seems more pronounced in the weapons forms I've tried than the empty handed forms (5:2 in taekwondo and aikido, 10:1 in battojutsu and foil fencing). So, maybe the use of an instrument and lack of self-defense application is part of it? Personally, I'm not in it (martial arts) for self-defense, and the sword allows me to avoid bruising my knuckles and stubbing my toes [grin].

Now that I've been to my first tournament, I'm fairly confident saying it isn't a matter of people currently training in the sword arts that keeps women out. The people that I've trained with and spoken to, both at my own dojo and those I met for the first time at Western Regionals, were nothing but supportive and encouraging. I'd like to take a moment to thank everyone who was there for making it such a good experience for me. I certainly feel motivated now to train even harder for my next event.

Cady Goldfield
19th October 2000, 18:39
Hmph. There're more of us playing with pointed sticks than you might think. Some of us just spend our time in shugyo and don't get out in public much.

Cady

ChrisBeattie
19th October 2000, 19:10
Oh, not saying there aren't women training, just wondered about the lopsided ratios. I suppose I could turn it around and ask why there are so few men in yoga?

There was someone who spoke with me at the end of the tournament saying he wished I could talk to his wife, as he had been trying to talk her into taking classes with him, but she wouldn't because she thought is was "just for the boys".

Personally, I usually forget I'm one of only 3 women at my dojo. Too busy actually training, you know. It's just I'd hate to think there are women out there missing out on all the fun just because they might be under the impression that they wouldn't be accepted or something like that.

glad2bhere
19th October 2000, 19:10
The same thing seems to crop up in a number of arts, but I have seen what you are talking about at the Kumdo school of which I am a member. Out of an enrollment of perhaps 40 students I have seen only three women and of those three only a young Korean HS student who trains on a regular basis. Now, true, most students at this school train in Kumdo which includes putting armour and whacking each other with bamboo swords. However, I train almost exclusively in Kum-Bup (sword form) in which there is no intentional contact and I still find there are few women participants.

Observing my own Hapkido classes as well as those of the local Aikido college class, the ratio of women to men is highly skewed in favor of the male population. As much as I have encouraged women to participate, I suspect that the image of a MA as a mans' domain remains firmly entrenched in our culture. Now, if I may flip the coin over there is an organization of female MA instructors and several dojo who advertise in AIKIDO TODAY that address specifically female practitioners. It is difficult therefore to say if what you and I are seeing is a cultural artifact, a result of poor instruction or sensitivity to female students' needs, or merely a fact of life.

I hope this isn't the last we will here about this issue, ne?

Best Wishes,
Bruce W Sims
http://www.midwesthapkido.com

Earl Hartman
19th October 2000, 19:15
You should try kyudo (traditional Japanese archery). It's chock full of women.

FWIW, I met my wife in a kendo class (in Japan) and although she hasn't practiced in years, she holds a 3rd dan in MJER Iai Heiho. As far as "sharp pointy sticks" go, the vast majority of naginata practitioners in Japan are female, so I'm not sure its an anti-weapon thing.

I think it's a cultural thing. MA in the US is often heavily marketed to women primarily as a way to protect themselves on the street. Swords are not too useful for this in this day and age, so the hand-to-hand stuff is emphasized.

Earl

[Edited by Earl Hartman on 10-19-2000 at 01:21 PM]

Cady Goldfield
19th October 2000, 19:26
Originally posted by Earl Hartman
You should try kyudo (traditional Japanese archery). It's chock full of women.

FWIW, I met my wife in a kendo class (in Japan) and although she hasn't practiced in years, she holds a 3rd dan in MJER Iai Heiho. As far as "sharp pointy sticks" go, the vast majority of naginata practitioners in Japan are female, so I'm not sure its an anti-weapon thing.

I think it's a cultural thing. MA in the US is often heavily marketed to women primarily as a way to protect themselves on the street. Swords are not too useful for this in this day and age, so the hand-to-hand stuff is emphasized.

Earl

[Edited by Earl Hartman on 10-19-2000 at 01:21 PM]

Earl,
I would take it one step further and say it's a "physical contact thing." The less actual (painful) contact a given art contains, the more likely it will be to be "chock full of women." Kyudo = Case in Point (no pun intended!). This isn't to say that kendo, infamous for it's painful head-bonks, deters women. But the kind of pain/injury is more predictable and less scary than, say, full-out kenjutsu or jujutsu. Although the number of women accustomed to hard physical contact is rising (thanks, in part to Title 9 sports), most women (heck, a lot of men, too) tend to shy away from the painful and the scary. Most are far more interested in internal pursuits that engage the mind and spirit in a peacful, non-confrontational way.

Chris,
I'm the only woman in my dojo, but we only have 5-6 members anyway. They couldn't scare me off or kill me off, so I'm still here. :D

Earl Hartman
19th October 2000, 19:37
Cady:

Actually, in kendo, getting hit on the knuckles, the elbow, or in the ribs (to say nothing of getting stabbed in the throat)hurts a lot more than getting hit on the head. This is also why there are plenty of men in kyudo, too.

I will agree, however, that the ratio of women in the MA seems to vary in inverse proportion to the potential for pain or injury. That being said, you are not going to find me in a full-contact Kyokushinkai karate tournament any time soon, either.

Earl

Cady Goldfield
19th October 2000, 20:18
Earl,
Please allow me to join you in NOT participating in a Kyokushinkai tournament. My old TKD teacher met Mas Oyama and got to train with some of his top guys. He said that they gave "even him" a run for his money. ;)

Cady

Eric Montes
19th October 2000, 20:23
Hi All,
Here is a reverse situation. I was practicing Naginata for the time I was living in Japan. Most Japanese were quite surprised to find a man practicing Naginata because it is "woman's art." Although none of my teachers batted an eye. And this is the modern version with armor and all that other good stuff (Nothing like a strike across the instep to wake you up in the evening!:-) )
I have experience the opposite situation. I attended several instruction seminars where I would be one of about 3 men out of a group of 100 or so.
I think more often than not there is a perception that X is man's art and Y is woman's art and never the twain shall meet. But, mostly it comes down to those who practice and those who don't.


Eric

Sheridan
19th October 2000, 22:47
Is the aikido male to female ratio really that skewed as well? Or is it just here in north america? (I have a friend that consistantly goes to different aikido dojos in Japan to *cough* 'pick up chicks'.) I was under the impression that they did quite well for themselves when compared to jujutsu.

Did I just answer my own question? Sorry, blond moment.

Both of my jujutsu teachers hold dan rankings in full contact karate. Kyokushinkai and Ashiharakaikan respectively. Let me tell you, my blocking and strikes are much better for it. (I frequently get to clean the mats though.):eek:

hyaku
20th October 2000, 01:07
There was a drop in the Kendo population in Japan. Partly because there simply is no interest (they would rather play soccer now). And partly when they increased the time between gradings from one to two years. There has been a recent upsurge. This has come from the fact that more girls are now doing kendo. For the first time in my college`s history (121 years) we now have a girls team.


Hyakutake Colin

Eric Montes
20th October 2000, 01:41
Speaking of Kendo and girls,
I was teaching at a Junior High School in Japan where for 3 years the Kendo club ONLY had female members. None of the first year boys would join because all their sempai would be female.

hyaku
20th October 2000, 03:53
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric Montes
[B]Speaking of Kendo and girls,

I was teaching at a Junior High School in Japan where for 3 years the Kendo club ONLY had female members. None of the first year boys would join because all their sempai would be female.
............

Yes I had the same thing at Junior High I was asked to visit. This year there were no new first year student as all the third year are girls.

Another problem I did not mention was that there are not enough teachers to go round and its not going to get any better either.

Hyakutake Colin

glad2bhere
20th October 2000, 13:26
Dear Mr. Colin:

Thats a theme I have heard quite a bit, and this shortage of teachers seems to go back a few years. Still, when I was interested in moving to Japan and willing to teach in their school system I was surprised at how little help I received and how few responses to my applications. Thoughts?

Bruce

hyaku
20th October 2000, 17:50
Originally posted by glad2bhere
Dear Mr. Colin:

Still, when I was interested in moving to Japan and willing to teach in their school system I was surprised at how little help I received and how few responses to my applications. Thoughts?

Bruce
.......................................

I think it`s a bit difficult trying to secure a good job from the outside. If you can get get over here first you have a much better chance of finding something better.

Colin Hyakutake