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Harry Ravelo
1st March 2004, 14:44
Hello everyone,

This my very first thread... quite nervous to chat with such insightful and knowledgable people...!!
Am sure that a lot of you, especialy those of us who are not in a position to speak Japanese or to live in Japan, are in the same situation as me: finding it hard to access genuine info on traditional koryu bujutsu! Especialy if you are a purist like myself and only interested in legitimate documents, reports or books (difficult to verify anyway).
What i am seeking are any tv or video documentaries that any of you would have come accross over the years... something that stays true to the spirit and traditions of the different techniques and there history. I can only name of few audio-visual materials that could match such literary works as Diane Skoss Volumes on Koryu Bujutsu, Donn Draeger's work on classical Bujutsu & Budo or Inazo Nitobe's reference book, Bushido:The Warrior’s Code for example. As far as I know, which is not much, I only saw "hybrid" documentaries about Ancient Chinese Arts which incorporated a bit of Japanese stories here and there. Besides movies that we all know and admire, like most Akira Kurosawa's master pieces or Hiroshi Inagaki's acclaimed Samurai Trilogy (which are screenplayed films), I've never really been satisfied with any documentaries! In fact, with only one so far: a french film maker and acclaimed scholar in Japanese Martial Arts, Michel Random, did a docy more than two decades ago called "Martial Arts of Japan". Very comprehensive & insightful, especially cause he was allowed, often for very first time, to film inside traditional temples and dojos around the country. He covered most "Gendai" arts (modern Budos) and a few iaijutsu schools, through to meditation practices. Really great! I would really recommend it if you can still find it!

Anyway.... I would love to ask any of you for assistance! Could you direct me to such works if you know of any??

Thank you all in advance.

Sincerely,
Harry.

MarkF
2nd March 2004, 12:19
The only one of which I would submit, is a documentary done in 1999, coming out in 2000 or 2001. It covers mainly a really nice hisotry of Kodokan Judo, with some fine, old film of the relative old days, as well as more modern budo, but it does touch on Koryu, with Meik Skoss. He does some technique with the katana on this documentary.

It was shown on a Discovery Channel, The Learning Channel in 2000, I believe (perhaps 2001), and considering the content, it comes off pretty well, including Chinese MA, but mainly Japanese Budo/bujutsu.

BTW: If you are able to find it (it is called Martial Arts: The Real Story), try to get the version shown in the US. From what I've heard, the version shown in the UK, was cut up and left most of what was good on the cutting room floor. You can find it at "The Learning Channel" or "The Discover Channel," though I'm not sure if they made it available as a tape or disc.

Finding really good documentaries on the subject is difficult. Findin them anywhere is difficult, I'm sure you will agree, but I hope you can find it, or at least find out if they will be reruning it and when. I don't know if you have access or not (you should), but it is the only one I can think of worth the bother.

This isn't really my area so perhaps others have some suggestions.


Mark

Harry Ravelo
2nd March 2004, 13:55
Thank you very much Mark for your response and your interest.

You are absolutely right: it is very difficult to find decent documentaries on the subject!
I had a look at "Martial Arts: The Real Story" and it really seems to go in the right direction. However, after reading the description I would be afraid to think that it might dwell a bit on other MAs too much rather than concentrating on Japanese Budo/Koryu/Bujutsu?? Am I wrong???

After surfing a bit on a couple of sites I found the following:
_ "Martial Arts: The Way of the Warrior" (Discovery Channel)
_ "Budo Masters" by Don Warrener (available on Amazon.com)

I haven't seen them yet but both seem to be pretty close to what I'm looking for. As anyone seen any of those two?? Does anyone think they could be qualified as "true" or "traditionaly accurate" enough??

The quest continues.....
Thanx again.

Harry.

Tim Atkinson
2nd March 2004, 21:45
Harry,

Martial Arts: The Way of the Warrior, if it is the one I am thinking of, was produced by the BBC and there is a book by the same name which covers the same material. Good article on Katori Shinto Ryu that is worth watching.

Budo: The Art of Killing (as released in the west) is a "nice" doco, but was a lot of gendai budo as well as koryu. Leans towards the gendai in content.

Hope the little I can provide, helps.:D

Tim

Harry Ravelo
4th March 2004, 08:11
Thank you so much Tim! What a great thing to be able to converse with differrent people from all over the world... :)

Apparently we might have gone through THE database of docies on the subject..??

I'm just curious: why, do you think, there have been so few documentaries on traditional Koryu/Bujutsu??
Is it because of the difficulty of finding visual material? Is it because of the inheritance being carefully protected by their keepers (and rightfully so)? For example, is it that very few people have access to old schools and temples where the masters would perpetuate their knowledge?
Or is it simply because there is little to no interest in todays international audience (especially western) in a subject like Koryu/Bujutsu as opposed to the more modern Gendai Budo???

Was wondering....

regards,
H.

Joseph Svinth
4th March 2004, 09:30
Although most of the show was devoted to modern MA, there was some iaido and naginata-do on "Martial Arts: The Real Story," which appeared on The Learning Channel a couple years ago, and still runs occasionally late night. You can buy a copy via http://www.psfp.com/vhs.htm . I'm pretty sure this is the show Mark meant.

As for the reason you don't see koryu budo on TV, there are actually several reasons.

First, there aren't many people doing koryu MA, either in Japan or out. Thus, there isn't much market for shows about it.

Second, koryu MA are no different from anything else in the martial arts. Some of it is good, some of it is not. Often, what appears best to television producers is not what appears best to practitioners. This leads to unhappiness on both sides.

Third, koryu practitioners tend to be middle-aged hobbyists rather than Olympic athletes. The demographic for martial art TV shows is 18-35, and in case you hadn't noticed, 18-year-olds typically don't take anything recommended by people their parents' age all that seriously.

Finally, you might be surprised how often you've seen koryu, only without knowing it. For instance, there is a photo at the Corbis collection that purports to show kendo, but really it's KSR. And you know what? For the purposes of commercial photo identification, Corbis is absolutely right. Kendo is in Webster's, and is an English word. Koryu iaido, on the other hand, would be utterly meaningless without long explanations, and providing long explanations usually isn't the point of a photo caption.

Regardless of where you live, your best bet for finding koryu is to hook up with the local kendo community. In Jo'burg, you might try these guys: http://home.global.co.za/~vulcan/kendo/ .

Also, consider the advice, "Do what's in front of you." Thus, in South Africa, take a look around, and you should find some Nguni stick fighting. http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Coetzee_0902.htm . You might also find some gatka, which is a Sikh stick fighting art.

Joseph Svinth
4th March 2004, 09:35
Oh. I forgot to mention -- check places like Aikido Journal for old films and books. Also, Peter Boylan just posted this at Iaido-L:

***

Recently we discovered that two of Nakayama Hakudo's books have been
reprinted in facsimile editions.

First is Nihon Kendo To Seiyu Kengi, in which Nakayama Sensei looks at the differences between European style fencing and Japanese
swordsmanship. Most of this is in Japanese, but one portion of
Nakayama Sensei's writings are translated. It presents a fascinating look at the principles of Japanese swordsmanship.
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product659.html

The second book by Nakayama Sensei is Kendo Tebikiso. Among the
finest practitioners of kendo, iaido, and kenjutsu, his efforts at
spreading these arts are a large part why they have become so popular
that they can be found around the world. This book, first published in 1924, was part of his efforts to popularize budo and the virtues that can learned through the practice of budo.
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product419.html

***

Jonathon Sumner
6th March 2004, 20:57
If I remember right, the Budokan put out a series of videos on Koryu. My teacher in Japan gave me copies of a few of them. Not the best quality in terms of production, and all were in black and white. Japanese only of course. Don?ft know where you could obtain copies. I never saw them for sale in books stores in Tokyo. The Nihon Budokan put a book out a few years ago that is very nice. ?gNihon no Kobudo?h “ú–{‚̌Õ?“¹?@Lists many schools, talks about history and techniques?c that sort of thing. Has some good pictures, even includes two swimming schools that are still active. ISBN4-583-03586-1 Outside of videos, a book like this might a good place to get a perspective on that is out there in?@Koryu. Might be hard to deal with the Japanese, but then it might spark you into a lifetime of linguistical happiness. I don't think there many good sources in English. (Hopefully the kanji will come right in this message.)

Harry Ravelo
7th March 2004, 12:51
Hallelujaaaaaa!!!! and when I thought that I exhausted the database on the web.....!!!

Thank you Jonathon for this new route. It might seem weird to most of you that I haven't searched on buyubooks.com before but, I never even new it existed.... :rolleyes:
Anyway... now, could anyone tell me what those books and videos are exactly?? There are thousands of them!!!
If I undertsand correctly they are instruction and demonstration books/videos, right? Not really documentaries. But it actually doesn't matter much, they could be full of information!
Are they ALL in Japanese? I'm pretty sure they have been produced by local guys for a local audience.... that's why english versions (or any other language) are non-existent. Fair enough!
I haven't spent enough time on the site yet but I would tend to say that their database is a "gold chest" for anybody doing research on bujutsu/koryu/budo.

Thanx to Joseph also for your very insightful response. I had a look at those links you posted.

I just want to make a little point: my quest is not to try to find a "quick guide to Koryu". In other words i'm not trying to find documents on the subject in order to choose a single ryu on which I want to study. Instead I'm seeking documents, and in this particular instance, visual docs, on Japanese Koryu in general. Huge endeavor indeed, but motivating for me nonetheless :)

regards,
H.