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kohei01
5th March 2004, 14:44
I have just moved to Mississippi and started training in Seibukan Shorin-ryu. I have never heard of Seibukan before, and I am interested in hearing what anyone out there might know about it, i.e. history, traditions, distinguishing characteristics, etc. If anyone can help, please let me know. Thanks.

Jussi Häkkinen
5th March 2004, 15:23
Well, you'll have a good start with www.seibukan.org

Also, check out an article about Seibukan kata at http://www.fssk.org/artikkelit/020_kata/kata_eng.html

Shortly:

Seibukan is a school of Shorin-Ryu that was founded by Shimabukuro Zenryo, most long time student of Chotoku Kyan.

Kyan Chotoku (1870-1945) was one of the most well known karate masters in Okinawa. He studied karate under Sokon Matsumura, Maeda Chiku, Oyadomare Kokan, Matsumora Kosaku, Yara (Yomitan) and learned a Tokumine no Kon staff kata under Tokumine PECHIN's landlord.

Current head of Shorin-Ryu Seibukan is Shimabukuro Zenpo, who is a son of Shimabukuro Zenryo.

Seibukan aims to maintain Kyan Chotoku's kata in its original form taught to Shimabukuro Zenryo. Kata application (bunkai) and functional approach to unarmed combat are the charasteristic values of Seibukan.

If you wish to study an authentic form of Okinawan karate, Seibukan is a good choice (among many others, still). It hasn't been changed to better suit for competition nor aesthetic issues.


Enjoy your training! :)

kohei01
5th March 2004, 21:17
Thank you for your insights. They are very helpful. Especially the website. I originally studied Shotokan, and since I have been training in Seibukan, I have noticed some subtle and some not so subtle differences. I have a lot to unlearn from Shotokan to become proficient in Seibukan. Especially the fact that I keep wanting to step into Zenkustsu-dachi instead of Shiko-dachi. How does this form of Shorin-ryu differ from other forms of Shorin-ryu, and how does Shorin-ryu differ from other forms of Okinawan karatedo? I studied Goju in college, so you can use that or Shotokan as a reference point if it helps.

hobbitbob
5th March 2004, 23:03
The
http://www.zentokukai.com/ (Zentokukai)
site is also choc full'o'resources.
BTW, it is difficult but not imposible to go from Shoto to Seibukan. I made the switch last January, and am training in Denver with Victor Banks. The hardest thing for me has been trying not to "cheat" and do fudo-dachi when I should do shiko dachi.
Have you learned our version of Jion yet?

kohei01
6th March 2004, 00:54
Interesting web site. Apparently, even in a style as small as Seibukan there are some factions. Someone will have to enlighten me about the "Seibukan Reformation" as promulgated by the Zentokukai organization. I can't really say that I disagree with the precepts of the web site. Karate, like all budo, is a personal journey. I must say that I don't understand the use of the word "Koryu" when referring to old style techniques or ways. A ryu is either a Koryu, or it is not. I don't know of any modern form of karate that falls into that category, but I also understand it is a hot topic on this forum from time to time. I don't really want to go there. I am just interested in learning about Shrorin-ryu. What other styles of Shorin-ryu are there?

hobbitbob
6th March 2004, 03:12
My understanding is that the Zentokukai is no longer affiliated with Zempo Shimabukuro in Okinawa. Here in the US Dan Smith's organization, the ISSKA is the official representative. Zempo Sensei's son Zenshun lived with Dan in Atlanta for the last few years while attending uni, and Dan has sponsored trips to the US for Zempo frequently.
Angel Lemus could probably tell you more about Zentokukai, since he is one of the founders, and posts on this site.

The "heart" of the difference between Seibukan and some other Shorin (suidi) styles is that we tend to practice the Kyan lineage Kata, instead of the Itosu lineage. This becomes somewhat complex, since Itosu and Kyan interacted, and Zenryo Shimabukuro was apparently quite close to Chosin Chibana, who was Itosu's top student. However, our kata (and the kata of seidokan, and to a lesser extent the Nakamura lineage people) tend to be "shorter" and to rely more on light, quick movements. You have already been introduced to the 3/4 twist punch and the emphasis on hip twist from shiko dachi to "mae dachi." There is also more of an emphasis on yori ashi movement in the kata, and in application. We also place a great deal of emphasis on bunkai/oyo training. have you been introduced the the yakusoku sets for Sesan and Ananku yet?

kohei01
6th March 2004, 03:42
Actually, I have only been to three sessions, so I am not familiar with many of the terms you are using. I haven't learned any of the kata, yet. What we have trained on is the Kihon Renshu and Zenshin Kotai. We have also done some Ippon Kumite. My sensei is also big on what he calls training circuits. They are rigorous and challenging. It is a really good workout. As I said earlier, I trained pretty extensively in Shotokan (3rd Kyu) in my early days, and I did a couple years of Goju in college. Therefore, I am familiar with a lot of the general terminolgy, but I am still learning a lot of the Seibukan specific stuff. Is Mae Dachi the Shorin-ryu version of Zenkutsu Dachi?

hobbitbob
6th March 2004, 03:47
Yup. Mae-dachi is zenkutsu dachi. Do you have a healthy fear of renzoku zuki, mae geri, gyaku zuki yet (the dreaded "punch punch kick punch,"guaranteed to turn your thighs to jello!)? :D
If you don't mind my asking, who are you training with?
Before I forget, here's another Seibukan page.
http://www.seibukan.com (Seibukan in Broomfield)
It works better with internet exploder than with netscape.

kohei01
6th March 2004, 07:17
Yes, there are a number of exercises that turn the legs to Jello. You gotta love the pain. My sensei is Bilijac Burnside who was a pupil of Dan Smith. He is either a Yodan or a Godan. I am not sure which. The classes are much more informal than I am used to. I would like to see a bit more discipline and formality to the class. I believe there is real value in that. For myself, I gained a much deeper insight into the Budo when I became familiar with the rituals and their meaning, i.e. beginning and ending the class with meditation, etc. I think Sensei does not want to frighten away many of his students who may not understand its meaning and purpose. Folks in this part of the country are very religious, and they might not be able to make the leap of understanding that is required. They may think it has some Shinto conotations. Of course, the root lies in Shinto. but the meaning is different today. But that is me talking. I obviously don't want to speak for him, and I don't want to offend anyone that may take my statement as an insult. It is not meant to be. The path of Budo is different for everyone.
By the way, thanks for all the great web links. They are very informative.

hobbitbob
6th March 2004, 07:44
I've never met him, but I've heard good things about Billjac. :D
Okinawan teaching methods are generally less formal than Japanese systems. Much of the Japanese "tradition" was an innovation by the university Karate clubs in the 1930s. Shinto, as such, is not really practiced on Okinawa, though there is a similar system in place, that has a female priesthgood, etc... Its more of a pantheistic semi-shamanism.
Anyway, you should be pleasantly surprised to find that Zempo sensei (who should be in the US in November), and his son Zenshun are open to answering any questions you might have. Dan Smith is also usually open to questions, and has an encyclopedic knowledge of Okinawan karate history and bunkai.
And yes, I imagine Mississippi must be the centre of the buckle of the bible belt! :D I narrowly escaped being assigned to Ft. Polk , which is, of course, even further south, in Louisiana. My re-enlistment options (in 1995, when the army was drawing down, and E-5 medics were less than a dime a dozen) were a mechanized infantry battallion at Ft. Polk , or Korea. :eek: Civillian life beckoned!

Jock Armstrong
6th March 2004, 08:20
Mark, forum rules state that all posts be marked by your real name. So far you haven't done this. Make sure you pop your real name in your posts from now on- the moderator might delete them otherwise.

kohei01
6th March 2004, 10:27
OK. I think I have figured out this signature thing. Does this work?