View Full Version : Differences of Jujutsu/Taijutsu ryu by periods

21st October 2000, 04:43
Greetings! :)

I am curious and maybe by common sense one can state differences between several jujutsu/taijutsu ryu that were developed during different periods of time. But I would like to know from those who have more knowledge on the subject than I do, what would be the differences between those jujutsu/taijutsu ryu developed during the the Sengoku Jidai(Like Takenouchi-Ryu, Yagyu Shingan-Ryu, etc...) and those created during more peaceful times like the period of the Tokugawa bakufu (Yoshin-Ryu, Tenjin Shinyo-Ryu, etc...)

This I would like to discuss historically and for those who have practiced one or the other or have been exposed to both, I would like to discuss then in their personal views and opinions according to their experience.

I think for those who practice jujutsu/taijutsu this would be of benefit from this historic comparison in understanding different characteristics of the different jujutsu/taijutsu ryu and their development as a martial art.

Best, :smilejapa

Arnold Vargas
Genbukan Satoichi Dojo
Tsunami-Ryu Bujutsu

Neil Hawkins
24th October 2000, 03:35
I haven't had time to really think about this yet, so there will probably be corrections when I get home tomorrow and check my facts, but off the top of my head...

As Daniel says early styles were characterised by their fighting in armour or kumiuchi. Techniques like hand throws, leg throws, neck breaking by twisting and straight arm locks evolved during this early period.

By Tokugawa the wearing of armour was less prevalent and so the styles began developing more intricate techniques. Hip throws, shoulder throws, basic wrist and shoulder locks and atemiwaza stem from this time.

Toward the end of Tokugawa and into Meiji the use of jujutsu was widespread and often utilised by the police of the time. Techniques such as strangles, chokes, complex locks and throws developed during this period.

Now this is purely speculation really as all styles developed over time, they evolved as new fighting methods evolved adding techniques and rarely distinguishing the old from the new. Some of the ancient scrolls can give us clues and I'd like to hear from others on their thoughts.



24th October 2000, 04:10
Thanks Daniel and Neil for your replies. :smilejapa

My thoughts are that those in the war times where directed towards battlefield combat. Those done in more in the Tokugawa arer more directed towards police arresting and control techniques, also for civilian self defense if possible. I believe, that maybe by the Tokugawa, Jujutsu was the art of the moment along with Bojutsu. Since no swords were being permitted to be used and some may be able to use a walking staff or cane. Also there was more use for the Jo for the police. This is my opinion, I may have errors, but please correct me if I am wrong.



Daniel Lee
24th October 2000, 04:22
One of the interesting aspects of some of the older arts is the carry-over of older systems of training from earlier periods. For example, the Takenouchi Ryu and Nagao Ryu contain armoured combat training, but later on founded dedicated unarmoured unarmed training also, and both of these forms exist today. Later systems also contain the unarmoured training, but not normally the former.

Whew! Talk about a gross over-generalisation! :laugh:

24th October 2000, 05:35


So then it is known that the older schools evolved from amoured self defense to unarmoured self defense according to the times. But that those which have done unarmoured self defense have not done or evoled towards armoured self defense because there has been no need. This I believe that are the main differences. And also that since some jujutsu ryu also uses weapons, that the focus of these could have change also in time.

Thanks for your comments on this topic, I really appreciate it. :smilejapa

And yes, talking about gross over-generalisation indeed...! :laugh:



29th October 2000, 02:45
The old systems and new systems have a lot of technical differences betwixt and between. Newer ryu-ha take advantage of small joints and nerve centres that weren't available during sengokujidai because of armor. Older systems concentrate on the body's large joints for jujutsu. You just can't break that guy's fingers with a twist of your wrist with a solid layer of bamboo (or whatever) in between. That's not to say that a takeuichi-ryu student can't handle himself in a back alley. :eek: Pretty scary stuff in some of the older ryu-ha. The old styles that have survived have done so by keeping up with the times and have taken advantage of those new playthings.

30th October 2000, 14:09
Mr. Lucas:

Thanks for your reply, very inderesting detail.


Earl Hartman
6th November 2000, 23:13
Just a quick note about Nagao Ryu.

The history of the Ryu states that it was originally developed by a vassal of Uesugi Kenshin to combat a quick "leap-in-and-stab" technique used by a vassal of Takeda Shingen. In any case, it was originally a form of yoroi kumiuchi (armored grappling) developed as a form of self defense for the battlefield. Many of its techniques still bear the marks of these origins.

However, most of the first 24 forms concentrate on techniques to be used by an unarmed man to defend himself against a man armed with a sword if he were suddenly attacked and was without his weapon, obviously a civilian scenario. All of these techniques depend on the correct use of atemi, in the form of metsubushi (eye-gouging) and nerve point attacks. I can state from personal experience that these attacks are EXTREMELY painful if applied with all of the necessary force, and can easily unbalance/immobilize the enemy for the split-second it takes to finish him off. However, many of these are quite obviously unarmored techniques, since these vital points would not be accessible if the enemy were wearing armor. However, the practical nature of the techniques is obvious from the fact that the atemi attacks and subsequent take-downs are done simultaneously with the aggressor's attack. Success depends on precise timing, entering angles and instant application of atemi. For those who like flowery and complex forms, the techniques seem to be very rudimentary and "crude", if by that one means that there are few complex sequences of movements to learn. However, they work very well, and in my opinion their simplicity is proof of their practical nature, the mark of real sophistication (KISS) and attention to their real purpose.


[Edited by Earl Hartman on 11-06-2000 at 07:25 PM]