Judo in Japan

[Ryu]

Hi, everyone.

I posted a similar question at Mousel's and got some good responses, and since most are BJJ practitioners over there, I wanted to get the opinions of judokas as well.

In the future I might have the chance to go back to Japan and possibly teach English. I have given thought to the idea of competing, or at least, training in judo. Possibly the Kodokan, etc.
My question is, how do you think my BJJ experience will help or hinder my judo? I have trained in BJJ for a couple years, and am modestly good with newaza hold downs, submissions, etc. My throws on the other hand, are not that great :) So it is in my best interest to train those much more, as well as my ukemi.
I guess my real question is, do you think I would have an advantage in newaza because of my BJJ experience? (which is not that vast) Or would the rules of judo groundfighting hinder me because of that knowledge?
Would it be in my best interest to try and win mostly by newaza in a competition (or training), or focus on my throwing. I feel comfortable on the ground, but might be in for a whole new world if I compete in judo.
Any opinions or thoughts would be appreciated. :)

Thanks,

Ryu

[efb8th]

Hi, Bill.

It depends on what you want to do in Japan: build your strengths or become a more well rounded fighter. If you want to become more proficient in your weaker areas (always a laudable aspiration) learn to throw. One of the main criticisms of the Gracie style is their lack of nage waza.
If you would like to train to strengthen your BJJ, why don't you go to Brazil? It's cheaper, and you could train with the best at what you do?

Just my 2yen worth,

[MarkF]

Ed is right, but I have something to add. Since your bread n butter is newaza, not only will you have to work on your throwing ability, but also on defending it. Then there is the submission-type fighting you are accustomed to doing. There are more ways to win in a judo match, you would have to make sure your joint locks are limited to the elbow. Something to be careful with as well, as a jumping anything, as in "jumping juji-gatame." I don't know if that is considered a legal move or not in BJJ, but mostly it isn't in judo. You cannot "wrestle" the opponent to the ground, an nage by either player would have to be attempted. I'm not trying to discourage you, but you may want to check out the University judo programs in Japan, as well.

Mark

[Ryu]

Mark, Ed,
Thanks for the advice. :)

Throwing is something I'm definately going to have to work on. So I think before I do anything (if I get back to Japan) I will be looking for an accomplished school to get some better formal training. My BJJ training was fun, and extremely intense, but I think I am more drawn to judo's philosophy, ethics, and the cultural aspect of it as well. Plus I enjoy Japan very much. So it's more of a love-culture aspect when it comes to judo.
So is there no other way to legally take someone to the ground in judo rules other than nage waza, ashi waza? I know that the Kodokan now accepts morote-gari, and such that are similar to a wrestler's double leg. However if I was competing, and suddenly took someone down with a double leg would I be disqualified? I need to get more familiar with the rules.
Anyway thanks again.

Take care,
Ryu

[efb8th]

Mark is the Ref, so he can correct anything I screw up, but in my competative days, you could proceed to matwork after securing a choke or armlock, as long as the takedown was not by use of extra pressure on the lock.

As for morote gari, it is my understanding that it must be done as a throw (lifting both legs with the arms) before it can be followed down into newaza. Same with kuchiki taoshi; gotta pick the leg up, then throw the body where it has no support (I believe "appreciable skill" used to be the term). The main point is that niether throw is a tackle.

Regards,

[MarkF]

You caught me, Ed. I should have said "waza" instead of "nage," and chokes and arm locks are waza, but even today, there is a question on "jumping" juji gatame. The Kodokan says it is perfectly legal (or so says Murata sensei, curator at the Kodokan Museaum), the IJF says no, the US organizations haven't made up their minds, and about half the time, it will be allowed, if the pressure, as Ed said, is not too much in securing that arm lock before falling to the mat. That said, I don't allow it, but there have been a few exceptions. Also, since judo has included many freestyle moves in it, there are ways to "wrestle" an opponent down, but some kind of WAZA must be attempted. As for morote gari, it is considered a tewaza depending on whether you look on the kodokan website http://www.kodokan.org , or the KJ book. The way I see it, is too different throws, but you be the judge.

I haven't run into too many attempts at either morote gari or kuchiki toashi, as this was the way to deal with those who liked to tackle. Again, it depends a lot on who is judging it. Different strokes, but if ever involved in shiai, 'tis better to ask first.

The best o soto gari I've seen (locally) bordered on a tackle, and this was in a local women's shiai. In this case, tori had given up on attempting to strangle, so she let up, without me (the ref) breaking them. Tori walked away, and uke began to get up, facing tori, and trying to push herself up with arms behind her. Tori, noting the time it was taking, ran straight at her and applied the throw. It is amazing how one can freeze an attacker and then defeat him/her, even when there is sufficient time to move. She didn't, Tori won with Ippon. The downside is that she shouldn't have charged like that, but hey, it worked.:)

Mark

[Ryu]

Mark and Ed,
Thanks for taking the time to give me the details, I appreciate it since I'll be the first to admit that I love the sport, but no little of the rules of the game.

I feel like I have a little better understanding now.
Thanks again. :)

Ryu

[Ryu]

oops that should be "know" little.

[MarkF]

http://judoinfo.com/images/kimura1.gif

Amazing how M. Kimura's center JUMPS OUT at you, even in a photo.

Mark

Sorry for the theft.:)