Fumio Demura Shihan expelled?

[MGarcia]

Hi all-

This is my first post and I hate it to be an unfortunate one, but can anyone tell me about this?

http://www.karatedo.co.jp/itosu-kai/english/demura/e-news-ind.html

I'm sorry if this is a delicate or even taboo subject, but I am very curious as this concerns one of the most famous and well-respected karate sensei here in America. I have also searched on this forum and found no discussions on the subject.

Thanks in advance.

-Mike

[Gene Williams]

Well, I had heard this. I'm sure it is political. I have a great deal of respect for Demura Sensei, have trained with him and his students in several areas of the US, and believe him to be a very accomplished martial artist. He has gone "Hollywood" somewhat, which doesn't thrill me, and he has thumbed his nose at Sakagami over the years. I have even more respect for Sakagami (Sr. and Jr.)and believe they are entitled to respect and communication from their JUNIORS, however. None of this detracts from Demura Sensei's skill or charisma, which he has to the max.

[Rob Alvelais]

This is ancient news? So, why bring it up? What's the point?

Mr. Demura heads his own organization. His karate credentials are beyond approach. So, what are you getting at? It's said that he and Saadaki Sagagami didn't get along. This sort of thing is hardly unusual in the karate world.

Rob

[MGarcia]

Again, I was just very curious about this as I just happened upon it during a web search. I've known and respected Demura sensei for a number of years and his expulsion from the Itosu-kai Federation in Japan (where he orginally began his training) was shocking, but my feelings were tempered by the reality of politics within martial arts. Mr. Williams post helped me to reinforce that fact.

I reiterate my apologies for bringing up this subject and I did not intend to demean Demura sensei, his style of budo, his organization and his students.

Good day to you all.

[Rob Alvelais]

Originally posted by Rob Alvelais
This is ancient news? So, why bring it up? What's the point?

Mr. Demura heads his own organization. His karate credentials are beyond approach.

Should be "Beyond reproach"

Rob

[Gene Williams]

If he's pissed, he's probably beyond "approach.":D

[M.C. Busman]

Just a note here...

The expulsion letter was issued by Sadaaki Sakagami, son of Ryusho Sakagami (deceased). In all of the years Demura was "distant", Ryusho Sakagami never felt the need to expell him. If Demura was not a dues-paying member &c. &c., why wait so long to issue such a letter? If Demuras main offense was using the template of Sakagami's rank cert (design, not sigs), why not be more specific?

Clearly, Demura is "old head" enough to stand on his own. It is rather a cheap shot to "expell" a man who has had his own separate organization and school for so many years.

How embarassing for the Itosu-Kai!

Politics me hearties, politics. :rolleyes: Arrrrr....


Oh, yeah. Don't apologize for being curious about this kind of stuff. Getting to the bottom of things, wanting to separate facts from fiction, determine motives etc. shouldn't be a taboo--even in the martial arts. We live after all in the real world, and not the set of a hollywood shaolin temple :)

Have A Spiffy Day,

~~M.C. Busman

[Rob Alvelais]

Originally posted by Gene Williams
If he's pissed, he's probably beyond "approach.":D


Hey Gene.

S E I P A I :smash:



Rob :toot

[Gene Williams]

:saw:

[hedkikr]

Hi Rob A....we cross paths again. To Gene & all those wondering, I feel it behooves me to shed some light on this subject. I've known Demura Sensei for many years & have always known him to be proficient, approachable & sincere. Although I belong to Shito-ryu Shukokai Union USA, Demura allows me to train @ the hombu as often as I wish (very handy because I work 10 min. away). I have several friends within the dojo despite not being "one of them". Soon after the so-called "expulsion" I spoke to him. He told me that Sakagami Ryusho, is his Sensei (even in death) & it is to him that he remains loyal. During his lifetime, Demura proved over & over that he was a worthy student & propagator of the Itosukai system. The fact he became the most notable Itosukai instructor worldwide cannot be dismissed. Due to his accomplishments, Sakagame Ryusho allowed Demura to do as he saw fit in all areas of karate. When the father died & the son became Soke, Demura continued to conduct business as usual. No dues, issue own menjo etc. The son wanted Demura under his control so Demura said (I paraphrase) "No, you are not my sensei. Why should I change what your father permitted?" and he quit rather than forfeit his values & kowtow. Sadaaki got pissed & issued that famous letter to humiliate Demura. Demura moved on to form his own organization - Genbukai - that retained most of his affiliate dojo. A number of dojo remained w/ Itosukai but he holds no grudge against those clubs (even though he was instrumental in their association). I have always appreciated Demura Sensei for his support, instruction, friendship & dedication to "the old ways". We both shake our heads when Olympic karate is proposed. Also, in response to Demura "going Hollywood", I couldn't disagree more. True, he has made many friends & acquaintences among the Hollywood MA crowd but don't carpenters have carpenter friends & dentists have dentist friends? But the start of every new year will find him leading beach practice @ 6:00 AM (shivering w/ the rest of us) & preparing "Mochi rice" to be pounded. He still teaches children & adults in the same old dojo he's been in for over 30 years & he drives a Toyota Camry (not Lexus or Mercedes). No, he continues to travel the world to maintain his karate legacy but is just a regular guy @ heart.

I really appreciate this site because it allows free discussion from which truths emerge.

Ed Smith
SSU-USA

[Gimbo]

I was under the impression that Demura was doing his own thing and calling it shito-ryu, not paying the dues or keeping up with any changes. I wasn't aware that it was a political stuggle between him and Sadaaki.
Due to his accomplishments, Sakagame Ryusho allowed Demura to do as he saw fit in all areas of karate.
I thought this was given to all those who achived the rank of shihan though I have never really gotten into the politics of the various styles. Currently I train in the shito-ryu itosu-kai style in canada headed by Tsumura Kei Shihan who also trained under Sakagami Ryusho. I have never asked him about how he feels about paying dues to Sadaaki or how well he thinks the political situation is. Mabey I'll ask next time I see him.