Tinbe' & Rochen <shield & short spear>

[Doug Daulton]

An open thread dedicated to general questions regarding the tinbe' & rochen or shield & short spear as used in Okinawan weapons traditions

[kusanku]

Here you have a toroise shell for a shield and a frog spear for a weapon.Actually you can use both as weapons, and do. Often it is taught in a two person kata, prearranged kumite, like.

Sometimes you twirl the frog spear to entangle an attacker's fishnet.

You think Peichin really developed this one, or fishermen, or both? I know, I know.

Come on now, a frog gig and tortoise shell...couldn't samurai do any better than this?

[E.elemental]

This thread has been asleep fot about 5 years. How about waking this up? For instance, for someone of average strenght, what would the appropriate weight of a Kumite timbe be for that person? I enclose some pictures, I did order one timbe and Rochin of Mr Don Shapland, the pictures below are some of the timbe and rochin he has made. From what I have heard they are great, I will write some feedback on them when my order has arrived.

[harleyt26]

I talked with Shapland sensei the other day,he told me he had just finished a kumite tinbe(maybe yours) that weighed around 2.5 kilo.I do not know of any other source for kumite tinbe to compare to. His tinbe are very nice,he has been working the bugs out of them for quite some time now and it shows in the results.I am sure you will be very pleased with yours. Tom Hodges

[E.elemental]

I talked with Shapland sensei the other day,he told me he had just finished a kumite tinbe(maybe yours) that weighed around 2.5 kilo.I do not know of any other source for kumite tinbe to compare to. His tinbe are very nice,he has been working the bugs out of them for quite some time now and it shows in the results.I am sure you will be very pleased with yours. Tom Hodges

Yes my Kumi Timbe was finished this weekend so it was probarbly that one Shapland was reffering to. I think he mentioned that it would weigh about 2 kg. Here is another picture of a timbe and rochin from another manufacturer. However I thought the Timbe on the picture was to light weight, I like the heavier ones. Also the Rochin wasnt sharpened so I went for Shaplands instead. He has been very helpfull with all my questions and I think that I will like the set extremely much. He has sent me some pictures of my finished Timbe and that looks very very nice!! :)

[E.elemental]

Four of the pictures Mr Shapland sent me, I choose Kanji but decided to have them written on the back. I think they will be better protected when doing Kumite, this way they wont get scratched.

[Sanseru]

Does anyone have a price list or is there one available for Mr. Shapland's Tinbe and Rochin?

Thank you in advance.

Kindest regards,

Mario McKenna
Vancouver, BC

[E.elemental]

Does anyone have a price list or is there one available for Mr. Shapland's Tinbe and Rochin?

Thank you in advance.

Kindest regards,

Mario McKenna
Vancouver, BC

Kata Timbe (1 kgm) 145 USD (with Kanji 160 USD)
Sharp Rochin 95 USD

Kata set 255 USD

Kumite Timbe (2 kgm) 170 USD
Unsharpened Rochin 80 USD

Kumite set 250 USD

Shipping 15 USD Canada and the US, 25 USD for Europe and Asia. These prices should be accurate, however contacting him I think is the best. I for instance wanted the Kumite Timbe but with Kanji. He also has many different Rochin, I wanted one in Cocobolo, sharp. But the prices above could give you an idea. Last time I spoke with him he had some sets ready to be shipped, if not ready the delivery time could be about 4-5 weeks. :)

[Sanseru]

Thank you very much for the information!

Kindest regards,
Mario McKenna
Vancouver, BC

[Blackwood]

Can someone provide contact info on Shapland Sensei? I tried Google, and found lots of mentions, but not one for him or his products.

[E.elemental]

Can someone provide contact info on Shapland Sensei? I tried Google, and found lots of mentions, but not one for him or his products.

He has 2 sites not really launched yet, they will as I understand present the weapons he is making. :)

www.ryukyukobudotesshinkan.com

www.tesshinkobudo.org

I`ll send you a PM with contact info.

[Robby Bray]

Here is a pic of the Timbe that Shapland Sensei sent me. It is very very nice. Well worth the price.

Robby

[Liam Cognet]

What are the types of rochin?

I know there is the short spear with variations of head configuration. There is also the machete type rochin with variations of handle length.
10927

There is also a rochin that looks more or less like a Chinese sword:
10928

Do the techniques for rochin change depending of the rochin type?

Are some rochin types synonymous with certain kobudo or karate styles?

Are some rochin simply cut down yari or naginata?

If some rochin practitioners are using Chinese swords, are there any using Japanese swords (i.e. wakizashi)

[Liam Cognet]

What dictates which rochin type a kobudoka uses? Do practitioners simply use whatever sword/weapon they want?

Here are more examples:

This picture looks to be a fairly standard Japanese tanto is being used in the manor of a rochin. In this example it is being done in Kenshin Ryu Kobudo which is generally associated with Shito Ryu Karate.
10950


This picture looks to be a Chinese Dao is being used. In this example it is being done by a practitioner of Matayoshi Kobudo. To my knowledge Matayoshi Ryu is not synonymous with a particular karate style.
10951


This picture is someone using a Chinese butterfly sword. Again, this is Matayoshi Kobudo.
10952


This picture shows a long handled machete type weapon.
10953


This picture shows what looks like a modern machete. According to this link the machete type is Matayoshi and the spear type is "Hozon".
10954


And then there is the classic spear type. [it wont let me add another picture...]

[Liam Cognet]

Here is a better shot of the tanto style:
10955

[Liam Cognet]

I found some information on Okinawan swords. As kobudoka seem to use whatever ‘sword’ they can get a hold of as a rochin, it may be more appropriate to use Okinawan/Ryukyu swords. Okinawas seemed to get many blades from Japan.

This is a long Ryukyu sword. The blade is Japanese but the handle is definitely intended for one handed use. It may be a big too big to use as a rochin.
10958

This is a short Ryukyu sword. Again, maybe a little too long for a rochin. This is basically a wakizashi.
10959

This is a knife with tanto style fittings.
10960

The info cam from here: https://markussesko.com/2014/09/01/ryukyuan-swords-and-japans-foreign-trade-loophole/