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dori_kin_86
1st May 2004, 19:21
Did a jo practitioner really defeat Miyamoto Musashi, but not kill him. I know that a lot of jo tactics involve anti-sword defence an counterattacks. Also, I read that after a defeat against Musashi, A warrior pioneered the jo with anti-sword tactics. I also heard that none are true, and that the jo is an Okinawan weapon. Please tell me which is true.

Brian Owens
1st May 2004, 20:29
Originally posted by dori_kin_86
I also heard that none are true, and that the jo is an Okinawan weapon. Please tell me which is true.
Since none of us were there, it is impossible to say with 100% certainty what is "true."

However the fact that Muso Gonnosuke developed a system based on the use of a short staff called a jo is pretty well established. He was a bojutsuka who lost a match against Musashi and after the defeat went off to study his shortcomings. The story goes that he was visited in a dream or vision by a kami disguised as a boy, who told him to "pick up a stick (or log) and consider its elements." He determined that the bo, at six feet, was too long to be handled quickly enough to work against a master swordsman (other bojutsuka might disagree). Based on this analysis his jojutsu was created.

The story of his rematch with Musashi has less support, but may also be true.

One can find staffs of all sizes used in many parts of the world. Claiming to be the one-and-only original would be foolish. There may or may not be an old sytem in Okinawa that uses a four foot staff, but that doesn't negate Muso Gonnosuke's development of the art in Japan.

Diane Skoss
1st May 2004, 22:36
Dear Dori_kin_86,

Please be sure to follow forum rules and sign your messages with your first and last names.

Thanks!

Brian pretty much covers the answer.

There's no historical evidence supporting the stories of Muso Gonnosuke meeting Miyamoto Musashi, but both matches are definitely part of the lore of our ryu. The technique Muso is said to have used to defeat Miyamoto Musashi is still practiced. Most of us recite and believe the story in the context of our tradition, knowing all the while that its historical veracity is suspect, to say the least.

Diane Skoss

Andy Watson
4th May 2004, 11:50
The dramatisation of Musashi's life in both book and film are quite well know thru the works of Eiji Yoshikawa. They are both very interesting to read and watch and both are far from what is believed to be historically correct.

monkeyboy_ssj
4th May 2004, 13:10
I actually learnt that story from a demo that Andy did a couple of weeks ago with a jo which was very focused and impressive :)

But the bit where he whipped of his hakama to reviel a spankly Dogi and whirls razzle dazzle Nunchaku whilst doing back flips ruined it a bit...

Cheers

Andy Watson
4th May 2004, 16:19
MATT

You promised you wouldn't tell anyone about that!

Bloody grass!

From

Andy Watson
Disukojutsu sokey and grammaster