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Hotsuma
2nd May 2004, 18:39
I was wondering what kind of sparring most okinawan styles do? The reason I ask is I'm checking out a goju ryu school near me, and their website is a little vague on their training. Is sparring usually full contact, ala kyokushin, or do they even spar? Thank you.

P.A.L
3rd May 2004, 00:08
Hi
I've never seen full contact in shorin-ryu school, all I've seen is
full control either with glove or w/out.we do lots of point kumite
but the last time we did 3 points open kumite was a test day.
I think Kyukoshin is unique in full contact kumite.I'd like to know about other schools.
Ali Habibi

Gene Williams
3rd May 2004, 00:15
When I began training in the early seventies in Shorin and Wado, it was fairly common to use body armor (bogu: pads like a catcher wears) with a wire mask and light gloves and fight full contact. You still got hurt, and there was a blind spot under the chin that everyone learned about pretty quick.

Shikiyanaka
3rd May 2004, 12:46
There seem to be very different opinions in different dj; in one there will be Kumite, however, not in a shiai performing style, but what they would call traditional. Maybe there will be an "explicit" Kumite, not to be confused with Kihon Kumite. Other may perform what they would call Irikumi or Tegumi, however, maybe carrying different meanings in different places.
All Gj dj that I know do Kumite in one way or another, however mostly do not the Shiai kind as the "highest" form of that.

My 10 Pfennig (approximately 5 Euro-Cent).

Timothy.G.B.
3rd May 2004, 16:21
In the style I am learning there is sparring only with Bogu and usually only between people who won't do any serious damage to each other, like kids.

My understanding is that the Bogu, although protective, will actually rattle your cage (pardon the pun) quite a bit. Bigger head means more torque on the neck and I think this could be very dangerous!! Also, we train makiwara constantly so getting hit fully with or without the Bogu on is not something I would be interested in experiencing :)

Otherwise, in our school, we do no free sparring, only yakusoku kumite and ippon kumite.

Tim Black

Michael Bland
3rd May 2004, 18:08
While training with Robert Rousselot of Taika Oyata's Ryute Renmei, we had quite a bit of sparring emphasized. (probably because I suck so bad and needed it!)

We did mostly bogu sparring with gloves and helmet full contact. We also did some full contact sparring without equipment but no hits above the jaw. We also did randori... and mixed full contact strikes into the randori. Of course we also trained specific techniques. I think we pretty much did everything that hurt. *smile* I spent most of my time getting my butt kicked.

Any chance to do hundreds of reps of kata in a hot dogi in a stuffy Japanese dojo on humid day in Japan was a nice break!

-michael bland

CEB
3rd May 2004, 18:41
Golden Oldie (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=21342&highlight=MMA)

Troll Basher
5th May 2004, 11:02
Originally posted by Michael Bland
While training with Robert Rousselot of Taika Oyata's Ryute Renmei, we had quite a bit of sparring emphasized. (probably because I suck so bad and needed it!)

We did mostly bogu sparring with gloves and helmet full contact. We also did some full contact sparring without equipment but no hits above the jaw. We also did randori... and mixed full contact strikes into the randori. Of course we also trained specific techniques. I think we pretty much did everything that hurt. *smile* I spent most of my time getting my butt kicked.

Any chance to do hundreds of reps of kata in a hot dogi in a stuffy Japanese dojo on humid day in Japan was a nice break!

-michael bland

You mean you didn't enjoy that?!?!? :D And here I thought you had fun doing that kind of stuff. ;)

Seriously though you actually you made some MAJOR improvements in sparring and technique.....I was really surprised you came back after the first class......it showed a lot of charactor and "stones".....a total lack of
brains though.;)

Troll Basher
5th May 2004, 11:08
The benefits of doing full contact bogu sparring:

Real speed and real timing is used

Full power blows are thrown- nothing is pulled- basically read as think and move fast or get pounded on.

Because of the protective gear nobody gets seriously injured.....only the stuff knocked out of them a wee bit

Michael Bland
5th May 2004, 18:22
a total lack of brains though.

Certainly not the first (and probably not the last) time I have been accused of that.

I agree it is necessary training. Without full contact sparring, I think you are just kidding yourself. But, I don't personally enjoy it. Maybe I would enjoy it more if I was better at it! In the meantime, I just think it is a necessary pain to go through.

RobertW
5th May 2004, 20:07
We do full contact. My teacher and Kaicho of our association used to be involved in organizing full contact tournaments in Okinawa. I have seen videos of him from Okinawa competing full contact as well.

RobertW
5th May 2004, 20:10
to add...

We don't only offer full contact, regular class sparring is sundome, no pads. We set the tone for the student. Some of us use shin instep guards, so I guess there is some gear used. People who need to protect thier hands can use gloves. I don't allow any Kumite without a mouthguard, either.

Roderick Titan
5th May 2004, 22:19
I think more than the ryuha, it depends on the sensei's or dojo's policy. I have trained with Shorin Ryu people who do only controlled, point sparring. I have trained with some who do only Bogu sparring. Then again I trained at a Matsubayashi dojo who trained almost all out, full contact, but their overall fighting ability impressed me the least. In fact they were pitiful looking flailers.

I learned to spar overseas where liability is less of a concern. We trained full contact except for hooks to the head/face. We only wore hand guards (small backfist pads) and no shin or foot protection. No straight-on kicks to the knees were allowed, but leg kicks to the outside and inside of the thighs and lower legs were. Sweeps and throws were allowed. Backfists, ridgehands and controlled jabs to the face were the acceptable face and head techniques.

It just depends on what your sensei feels is relevant. I don't feel that jiyu kumite is relevant at the yudansha level. Just my own personal philosophy based on what I've observed. No need to fake fight before you fight for real, at that level. 2-person sets and kata are more than enough for SD. Competition is another thing.

Slap Fu is fun, I have to admit.

Hotsuma
7th May 2004, 05:54
Thanks for all the replies. Since it sounds like sparring varies from instructor to instructor, I'll just have to ask the sensei of the school.

K Dub
21st May 2004, 17:44
In our Uechi-Ryu dojo, we do jiyu kumite without pads at full speed, but with controlled contact. Not quite all out, but pretty close.

We also do a lot of partner work with striking pads and shields to get the feel of contact and develop power.

As for conditioning, we do a full range of kotekitae and other body pounding drills to increase our resistance to being hit.

my $.02

hobbitbob
21st May 2004, 18:32
Kumite variues in type and intensity according to age and level with us. Kids and beginners are light to no contact, and kids wear head gear. Grown-ups from 6-4th kyu are expected to be able to ahndle moderate body contact, and to be more aggressive. Brown and black belts we pretty much go with the "I'll tell you if you are thumping me too hard"agreements. Some of us also kick to the thighs, etc... I'm dumb enough to enjoy the contact. :D

K Dub
21st May 2004, 18:35
Some of us also kick to the thighs

My sensei taught me a many painful lessons about footwork, blocking and conditioning with those thigh kicks.

tallpaul50
10th July 2004, 17:48
We do 3 types of sparring in my dojo.

1. Full contact with bogu gear on. And yes, you certainly can get your cage rattled. The disadvantage of it, as I've seen it anyway, is that defense gets tossed out the window frequently and it becomes a slug-fest.

2. Medium contact sparring with only hand pads on. Since we don't do head kicks (we like our groin just the way it is, thank you.:D ) Hard, full speed (but controlled and pulled) techniques are allowed from the groin to the head. Accidents happen, but you learn to block, body shift (aka change of body) and counter-strike best thsi way I think.

3. Light, "tournament-type" sparring. Little/light or no contact allowed, but full speed techniuques are required with maximum control. This is good for learning speed, finding openings, learning to open up your opponent and practicing control.

All three of these have their advantages, and disadvantages. A mixture of all threee, I believe, is good. Overdoing, or ignoring any of them will leave holes in your training.