training regimine

[sepai 85]

what is yours ?

is the emphasis on conditioning technical work kata or kumite. this is of course your personal training done outside the dojo on your own time

[Gene Williams]

Here's what I did today: 15 minutes of stretching, 30 knuckle pushups, 50 crunches. Fukyugata Sho, Gakkisai Dai x2 ea. Pinan x2 ea., Naihanchi x2 ea. Then Bassai Dai, Rohai, Seisan, Seipei, Gojushiho, Kururunfa, Sochin, Matsukaze, Jutte, and Kosokun Dai. Then one kata with each weapon: Tokumine No Kun, Hama Higa no Tonfa, Taira Nunchaku, Hama Higa no Kama, Chatan Yara no Sai. Ended with light stretching and 50 more crunches. That took about an hour and a half. That is a typical kata work out for me. Sometimes I will pick three or four kata and just work those for fine points, etc. I hit the makiwara at least twice a week, and the heavy bag twice.

[CEB]

I've stopped doing Karate workouts outside of class for now. I used to religiously work kata and hoju undo outside of class but after 30 years of training the last 20 being Goju Ryu I don't think I'm ever get it right, so what the heck, now I am training for Triathlon.

Here is my non-class workout schedule.

Monday - Friday if weather forecast is crystal clear I cycle 12 miles to work and back (6 miles one way).

Monday - Run
Tuesday - Run On Treadmill then Swim
Wednesday - Run or cycle ( based on how knees feel )
Thursday - Run on Treadmill
Friday - Bike Ride or Swim.
Saturday - Bike ride (20-65 miles) depending on available time.
Sunday - Swim.

[Gene Williams]

Ed, The White Possum says you should be ashamed of yourself:nono: I run and bike, too, but training in karate is what gives me life. You shouldn't be thinking about achieving anything. Just do kata...for its own sake.

[sepai 85]

Williams sensei
thank you for your input, It was very informative,

Ceb
your training schedual is very interesting I used to run but stopped and now need to retrain all the fibers oh well keiko keiko keiko

thank you to both of you

[sepai 85]

a few questions

1. Do you believe a kata should be practiced only once per session one chance one encounter type of attitude or done several times to refine form ?

2.I am curius as to chatan yara no sai, I have been taught chatan yara no kun many years ago.. but unfortunitly never heard of chatan yara no sai is there anywhere I can get information pertaining to this kata ?

thank you for your time again gentleman
Domo arigato goziumusu

[Shikiyanaka]

Ben,

I can't help with 1., however for 2. take a look:

Photo description - Version unknown (take care, one move missing) (http://www.stamfordisshinryu.com/id215.htm)

Very interesting, accompanied by some text (PDF) (http://www.madeleine.nl/_sokn/magazine/SOKN-magazine032003.pdf )

Nakamoto Mamoru of Bunbukan; Video (http://www.wonder-okinawa.jp/023/eng/013/002/index.html Mamoru Nakamoto)

[Gene Williams]

Originally posted by sepai 85
a few questions

1. Do you believe a kata should be practiced only once per session one chance one encounter type of attitude or done several times to refine form ?

2.I am curius as to chatan yara no sai, I have been taught chatan yara no kun many years ago.. but unfortunitly never heard of chatan yara no sai is there anywhere I can get information pertaining to this kata ?

thank you for your time again gentleman
Domo arigato goziumusu

A lot depends on how long you've been training. Our understanding of kata changes over time, as well as the benefits we seek. I believe that mudansha should pretty much stick with multiple repetitions, breaking the kata down to perfect it, etc. At senior level, I think that one session a week by yourself should be very formal. Go to the dojo with a clean gi, bow in, stretch, then do each kata once and once only, no matter how well you think you did it. No starting over, no stopping in the middle and hopping around cussing because you screwed up, no repeating the kata. Just do it as if you were sitting zazen. Don't think about anything, don't argue with the kata or yourself, just let the thing happen. Then, GO HOME! No hanging around to obsess. I do this at least one or two sessions a week. The rest of my workouts are pretty much like my white belts' workout. Lots of stopping and starting, focus on fine points, cussing, and laughing at myself;)

[Gene Williams]

Folks, that is nothing like the Chatan Yara no Sai I do, but I think there are two versions of the kata, or a sho and a ni. Interesting.

[Shikiyanaka]

I have quite some different versions at hand:

the pdf of SOKN magazine (link postet above)
the Nakamoto Mamoru file on wonder of Okinawa (stripped-down version)
one from Inoue 1974 (book)
one from a film of about 1964 (it is exactly as I learned)
one from Ryukyu Kobudo, Okinawa (video)
The version I learned personally

- these are basically all the same (with some differences, though). The descriptions in the pdf for example, however doesn't show many of the smaller movements, so it is hard to follow sometimes.

The Isshin-ryû version shown in a film by Shimabukuro (I guess that was his name) is different from the above; also it begins the same, at some points he goes a differetn way.

I saw a video on the net which was called Chatan Yara no Sai Shô, from USA. The link is somewhere in e-budo. As the "Shô" suggests, this seems to be an abriged version. And it is shorter, just leaving some movements out. Would be interesting to know who invented it.

[sepai 85]

Thank you to everyone who responded I assure you it is much appreciated, sensei Williams I realize you said mudansha should be devoted to technical work on kata, but does this also apply to the biginner yudansha levels shodan-nidan ? OR do you personally feel this program can be started at shodan

domo arigato goziumusu

In regards to chatan yara no sai I have never seen it but I have been taught a kata called nicho sai which unfortunitly lacks similarities :confused:maybe the kata diffrence could be because of diffrent parts of the founders life ? as is the case with meibukan and jundokan same forms almost but small technical variations. Thank you for sending the links they brought insight into many things

domo arigato goziumusu
looking forward to further contributions

[Roderick Titan]

Originally posted by CEB
I've stopped doing Karate workouts outside of class for now. I used to religiously work kata and hoju undo outside of class but after 30 years of training the last 20 being Goju Ryu I don't think I'm ever get it right, so what the heck, now I am training for Triathlon.

Here is my non-class workout schedule.

Monday - Friday if weather forecast is crystal clear I cycle 12 miles to work and back (6 miles one way).

Monday - Run
Tuesday - Run On Treadmill then Swim
Wednesday - Run or cycle ( based on how knees feel )
Thursday - Run on Treadmill
Friday - Bike Ride or Swim.
Saturday - Bike ride (20-65 miles) depending on available time.
Sunday - Swim.

Wow! That's alot of cardio! All that running will kill you, hahaha! If you do all your kata, 3 times each 3x's a week, engage in weight training (about 3 x's a week) and cardio twice a week, that should be sufficient and moderate enough to not overwork your muscles, heart and joints. Don't forget Jim Fix.

Swimming and biking I like. Running on cement or any hard surface does more damage to the body than good in the long run, no pun intended. Also, jogging will give you endurance, and build up slow-fatigable muscle fibers. Not good if you believe speed is the key to fighting. Still, wow, great workout! Why did you give up on traditional karate Ed?

[sepai 85]

besides the makiwara anyone else do the hojo undo excersises how often and with what tools chi shi ishi sashi kongo ken etc ?

as well what is the emphasis placed on conditioning in your dojo whether it be bridge arms (ude kitai?) thai pads bogu gear or what have you lets go out on a ledge an exchange ideas.

I like swimming it seems to be a whole body experience sortove reminds me of grappling with the slight resistance of water, I was recently talking to someone about the bad effects of running on gravel and concrete what do you guys think about running on sand and up grass hills ?

domo arigato goziumusu
yours in budo

[CEB]

Originally posted by Roderick Titan
Wow! That's alot of cardio! All that running will kill you, hahaha! If you do all your kata, 3 times each 3x's a week, engage in weight training (about 3 x's a week) and cardio twice a week, that should be sufficient and moderate enough to not overwork your muscles, heart and joints. Don't forget Jim Fix.

Yeah Brian, I thought about that when I was at the library looking at books on Running. There were a couple of text on Running by Jim Fixx and I thought he's dead isn't he. He died young too. :laugh:



Originally posted by Roderick Titan
Swimming and biking I like. Running on cement or any hard surface does more damage to the body than good in the long run, no pun intended. Also, jogging will give you endurance, and build up slow-fatigable muscle fibers. Not good if you believe speed is the key to fighting. Still, wow, great workout! Why did you give up on traditional karate Ed?

Road work is killer. Monday nights is the only day I do Road work. Wednesday night I run easy off road paths behind U of I while the boy does his soccer practices there. The rest of the running is 30 minute runs on a Treadmill after Karate class. Running hard surfaces sucks but you have to train for it. I started my road work using a program that a running coach from Florida uses for his beginning runners. You go for 30 minutes. You walk the first 5 minutes and the last 5 minutes. The 20 minutes in between is run til fatigue starts then walk when you recover run till you get fatigue hits again then walk. after 39 days you should be running the entire 20 minutes. The endurance isn't the issue it is getting the legs used to the beating. I can run on the treadmill for 30-45 minutes straight no problem but asphault beats the hell out of me. I am being told to always integrate walking and running together when working on hard surfaces. This is especially important if you weigh over 200 pounds.

Swimming is the most challenging of the three. Its the most technical and I'm not very good at it. Tuesday nights I try to do technical drills. I work a lot of kickboard stuff. My kicks are awful. I try to get in two session of lap swims a week. The worst part about the Swim is the start, because stronger faster swimmers don't swim around you, the !!!!!!! swim over top of you. The start of the swim is like a friggin rugby scrum.

Cycling is the my favorite. Its what lead me to trying Triathlon this year. That and being closer to 60 than 18.

[Troll Basher]

I am a CFT ( Certified Fitness Trainer) and work for the US Military here in Japan........my work out starts at O'dark thirty (0400 for civilians and non-military types)....lots of cardio followed by a bit of food then job stuff/work....then weight training....more food then heavy bag work....more food....teaching MPs or CID students (part of my job)..more food....then home for some low carb beer and a bath

[Roderick Titan]

Are you prior military? You seem to have a really cool life. I was at Yokota in 85,86 and 87. Japan is a really different place. I didn't know that automaton run cities existed outside of science fiction (just joking)! I bought my first beat machine and emulator at "Pony's". Is it still there?

Anyway, everytime I made a trip to the mainland the only thing I could think of was "Bladerunner". I couldn't imagine living there as a civilian. Just too plastic, prejudicial and surreal--- and tooo expensive! On the other hand, I loved Okinawa. The food, the people, the dojos, everything!

Do you train Air Force, Army or Naval troops? Which base(s) do you work at the most- Yokota, Yokusuka or Misawa? Isn't there an army post there too?

Don't work too hard and have a great week!

Later all.