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Margaret Lo
26th October 2000, 14:29
After posting a tip regarding all you can eat Brazilian barbecue on the Scotch Whiskey thread, I am compelled to start this up.

1. Greenfields, in Corona, Queens, NYC $20.00 all you can eat Brazilian, owned and run by a Korean-Brazilian.

2. Korean Barbecue, 32nd St. and 6th Ave. in Koreatown, Manhattan, NYC. Hot coals at your table, add thin sliced marinated beef, garlic, roll into a leaf of romaine lettuce, add miso paste, various condiments - stuff entire roll into mouth.

Ok - somebody share.

-M-

HanashiBugeisha
26th October 2000, 17:54
Margaret,

You must stop!!! It is 12 noon here...no dinner last night...no breakfast this morning....and I do not get a lunch break today....you are making my mouth water!!!!!

For BBQ....Kwan Court here in Wichita, KS....awesome barbequed eel....mmmmmmmmmm

Regards,
Matthew Ash :-)

Earl Hartman
26th October 2000, 18:24
Margaret:

Since I keep kosher, I don't go out to eat much, so although I can't give you my favorite barbecue restaurant, I can give you my favorite barbecue recipe, Armenian lamb shish kebab, courtesy of my grandmother's third husband (and the only grandfather I ever knew) Stefanos Zazunian:

* A bunch of chunks of tender lamb, not too fat, not too lean
* Liberal amounts of thinly sliced onions, lemon juice, and extra virgin olive oil

Marinate lamb in onions, olive oil and lemon juice at least over night. Thread on skewers with chunks of sweet onions, whole mushroom caps, and red and green peppers. Grill quickly over a hot charcoal fire. Serve with rice pilaf, accompanied by alcoholic beverage of choice (I prefer dry, naturally carbonated Norman hard apple cider).

Chopped bell pepper salad (or romaine hearts in olive oil and balsamic vinegar dressing) and babaganoush are good accompaniments. Finish the meal with baklava and strong black coffee (Greek/Turkish/Armenian style, boiled with the grounds and flavored with cardamom) fresh fruit, and your choice of schnapps (Calvados or Kirsch are good). Season with liberal doses of good conversation and maybe a few songs.

If you're good, and give me your favorite recipe (something I can eat, please) I could be cajoled into giving you the secret recipe for oregano grilled chicken from the island of Rhodes. Once you've had this you won't want to grill chicken any other way.

Earl


[Edited by Earl Hartman on 10-26-2000 at 01:04 PM]

john mark
26th October 2000, 18:40
For great Cantonese Barbecue my fav is

BIG WONGS on Mott Street. In addition to barbecue, it has congee, rice and noodle dishes. Best peidan congee in the US, but then peidan is very much acquired taste stuff.

If you're in Jersey and don't want to make the trek, Gim Men Grocery Store (sp?--Golden Door is the translation)on Rte 10 in East Hanover has great take out.

Any hints on a place for Beijing Kao Ya in the PRNJ?

Margaret Lo
26th October 2000, 19:35
Matthew - hope you got some big ribs for lunch. Thanks for the tip.

Earl - thank you for the lamb recipe. My barbecue marinade follows but I have no idea if it passes kosher rules:

1/3 black bean garlic sauce (Lee Kum Kee brand is fine) to 2/3 Oyster sauce. Add hot chili sauce to taste, and a dash of soy. Spread liberally over chicken parts. Grill the heck out of it. Nice recipe for simplicity. Add fresh corn, summer evening breezes and good friends.

I also like hard cider, I like Woodchuck's Granny Smith variety which is tart and not too sweet.

John - I don't know of a duck place in Princeton. I did notice that on Mulberry? street in Chinatown in NYC a new duck restaurant opened. It even looks hip and ambitious (slick design and real table cloths !)

-M-

HanashiBugeisha
26th October 2000, 20:54
Hello Earl,

I wanted to give you this link...

http://www.kashrus.org/recipes/recipes.html

They have some really great Kosher Asian recipes!

I am Jewish but not practicing. I grew up in a fairly strict orthodox household....until my father died when I was 14. After that everything changed. What didn't change was my taste for the foods that I grew up with (Kasha Varnishkas...Lockshen Kugel...and my Grandma's Rugelach!!!).

When my mom came out to Kansas from back east earlier this year, I wanted to impress her with my kosher cooking. Since then I have tried quite a few recipes from this site.

I just thought you might enjoy trying some too :-)

Best regards,

Matthew

Earl Hartman
26th October 2000, 22:08
Matthew:

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Your story is the mirror image of mine. I didn't grow up keeping kosher, but I do now. Fortunately, if you stay away from shellfish, it is very easy to keep kosher and eat all sorts of great Japanese food, since Japanese cuisine is based primarily on seaweed, soy beans, vegetables, and fish.

My grandmother, who was very assimilated, kept a glatt traif kitchen and never forgave me for keeping kosher, since she could no longer stuff me until I burst. Being Southern (Montgomery Alabama) and Jewish was a deadly combination: she existed to feed people. In her house, there was only one rule: eat until you were sick. If not, don't bother to come back. I'm probably the only Jew I know that grew up eating grits and gumbo.

Kasha varnishkes, huh? Guess your family is from Russia or Poland. Kasha brings back memories. My Mom made kasha a lot. She'd fry onions, coat the kasha with beaten egg, fry it quickly in the pan, and then add the stock. Pretty good. It's also good with sliced mushrooms.

Earl

HanashiBugeisha
27th October 2000, 01:12
Hello Earl,

LOL....I would imagine being from the south and being a Jew would be a deadly combination!!


Yes, my great grandmother and grandfather (Paternal) are from the Ukraine. My maternal grandfather was from Poland. Your mom makes the kasha the exact same way I do. My dear wife tried to surprise me by making it once. She boiled it in water like rice and added chopped onions :-)
It was the thought that counts!

Ah yes, staying away from shellfish would not be much of a problem for me. I love seafood (even gefilte fish with a little horseradish....Jewish Sushi!). And I could live on borscht and potatoes. I think in a different life I must have been a peasant :-)

We have a great Japanese noodle shop here in Wichita....I wonder how some soba and small bowl of borscht would do for lunch :-)

Matane,

Matthew

Earl Hartman
27th October 2000, 01:41
Matthew:

Kasha boiled in plain water with chopped onions? Eeeegghh.... Oh well. I had a Jewish friend who tried to make sushi with Uncle Ben's once (!!!???), so what can I say?

I once had Shabbes dinner at the home of a Polish-Jewish family from Mexico City. I was served gefilte fish with salsa. It was surprisingly good.

That's the great thing about kosher food. It doesn't really have to have any "ethnicity", so to speak. For my son's Bar Mitzvah party, we had kosher sushi (courtesy of my wife) and blinis (courtesy of me) with sweet and savory condiments (stewed fruit, sour cream, caviar, chives, and lox). Slurp, smack!

Earl

Alacoque
28th October 2000, 22:34
Hi Guys,
As we here in Ireland have a very small Jewish community, I don't know what kasha is. Could someone explain. Although I was in New York earlier this year and had some very delicious knishes in Katzes deli! And I love latkes, I have a great recipe for them, but I'd love a bit more info on Jewish cusine.
Hey Matthew, I had occasion to be in Wichita last year and had lunch in a truely excellent noodle house, I think it was Korean but I can't be sure. All I know about it was that it started out as a market place and eventually developed into a restaurant. Maybe it's the same place!
Cheers,

Alacoque

hyaku
29th October 2000, 02:04
Can`t beat a good old traditional Japanese Barbecue. A few tasty sparrows grilled to a turn. The heads are real crunchy but I always leave the legs as they get in between my teeth a bit.

Those frogs are really tasty too. Always look like they have given up though, with their chins turned up and arms high in the air.

On the lighter side smoked eel it absolutley delicious. Only drawback is when I order some to smoke, they give them to me still swimming in a large plastic bag!

Hyakutake Colin

HanashiBugeisha
29th October 2000, 02:31
Hello Alacoque,

Kasha is a grain product....buckwheat groats. They are very good....but that's my opinion...my wife does not like kasha.

I have been here in Wichita slightly over three years. I have not been to the Korean noodle shop. I will have to find out where that one is. The noodle shop I go to is called "Tokyo Noodle Shop" (I know...very original). We seem to have a fair amount of Japanese restaurants here...but very little in the way of a Japanese culture. Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, Shogun (4 Hibachi restaurants within 10 miles of one another)...three sushi bars....and a PFC Sushi bar at the local grocery store. Tonight I had Una Jue...barbequed eel on a bed of rice......delicious!

My wife and I are talking about visiting Japan. I want to go for a month...but I anticipate problems. First, my wife is the most picky/finicky eater on the entire planet. I however love to eat new and interesting foods. She does not want to find the Mcdonalds in every town...and I want to venture off the beaten path in Japan to some of the smaller towns and villages. I almost forgot to mention that she does not eat seafood...not at all.

Went we went to Scotland on our honeymoon last year, I ate fish, lamb...anything that was fresh locally. She ate bread, cheese and juice the entire trip.

I would be curious if anyone has any suggestions for fare that my wife could eat on our trip to Japan.

Matane,
Matthew

john mark
29th October 2000, 12:07
Originally posted by hyaku
Can`t beat a good old traditional Japanese Barbecue. A few tasty sparrows grilled to a turn. The heads are real crunchy but I always leave the legs as they get in between my teeth a bit. ... On the lighter side smoked eel it absolutley delicious. Only drawback is when I order some to smoke, they give them to me still swimming in a large plastic bag!

Hyakutake Colin



The Cantonese also eat pigeon that way, but it's not on my top ten list. I do like curried duck feet and chicken feet. We have breakfast/lunch dishes that we call dim sum (dian xin for you pinyin types); lots of great stuff that include everything from steamed dumplings to barbequed pig stomach/intestines. FYI Cantonese will eat anything or parts thereof with legs except furniture. My wife (2d gen Irish) and kids love the stuff.

I generally go to the Silver Palace in NYC and in Hong Kong Maxims (yup the fast food chain) in the Gov House at the Star Ferry. Triple 8s in NYC is also a good choice. Have not found good dim sum in the People's Republic of NJ yet. Margaret any recommendations?

We also love barbeque eel Japanes style over rice. Thanks to Margaret, I now know where to get the stuff in the PRNJ -- the former Yohna Plaza in Edgewater.

Alacoque, FYI wife's family is from Mayo and 2 of the girls will be dancing in the Oireachtas this year. If they do well then off to Ireland for the All Ireland Feis.

Margaret Lo
30th October 2000, 15:48
John, dim sum places I know are fairly far south of you.

1. Dynasty (what else!) in Robbinsville, Rte 33 near Rte 130 south of Princeton.

2. King's Chef on Rte 1 in Woodbridge intersection of Rte 9 and Rte 1. Dynasty is better.

3. Sunny Garden? Rte 18 in East Brunswick. Haven't tried that one but have heard reports that its not bad.

In NYC, on 83rd Street between 1st and 2nd I think is a wonderful place called Donguri. It lives up to its name and is the size of an acorn so call ahead. Run by a couple from Kyushu.

In north Jersey, Fort Lee in addition to having Yaohan, is replete with Korean restaurants, and Japanese places but I don't have a specific reference.

In South Jersey - in Collingswood/Mount Holly, across the Ben Franklin Bridge from Philly is a legendary Japanese place called Sagami. Never been there but it has been vouched for by trusted friends.

-M-

Earl Hartman
30th October 2000, 19:11
Alcoque:

When most people (in the US, at any rate) think of "Jewish" cuisine, they usually think of things like deli food (hot pastrami on rye, dill pickles, knishes, etc.) or things like chicken soup, pot roast or baked noodle puddings (kugel). These are all quite tasty if prepared correctly, if a little on the heavy side, but they are basically generic Eastern European foods and are not, in and of themselves, specifically Jewish. For instance, fried potato pancakes (latkes) are one of my favorite foods, but they are eaten in one form or another wherever people eat potatoes.

The only real requirement for real Jewish food is that it be kosher. The word kosher means fit or proper, and although it is usually used to describe food, it is used to describe anything that is proper and acceptable under Jewish law.

For food, this means a few main things and their derivatives:

The only warm-blooded four legged animals that can be eaten must have split hooves and chew the cud. This includes all doemsticated ruminants such as cows, sheep and goats as well as animals such as deer, antelopes and giraffes (!). Pigs are not kosher because they have split hooves but do not chew the cud, and camels are not kosher becasue they chew the cud but do not have split hooves.

The rules for birds are a little more complex, but, essentially, all traditionally domesticated fowl such as chickens, ducks, geese, and turkeys are kosher, and all raptors and carrion-eaters (hawks, eagles, vultures, etc.) are not kosher. Still trying to find out if grouse, guinea fowl and partridge are kosher. Heard they're quite tasty.

All warm-blooded animals must be slaughtered, bled (blood cannot be eaten), and be declared free of disease according to a complex set of rules in order to be kosher. Thus, although beef and chicken are inherently kosher, what is available in most supermarkets is not kosher since it has not been prepared according to kosher procedures, and hunting is verboten.

All fish varieties with fins and scales are kosher (trout, salmon, tuna, etc.), any seafood (freshwater included) that does not have fins and scales is not kosher (clams, shrimp, lobster, etc.) There are no laws of ritual slaughter for fish.

Milk products must be made from the milk of kosher animals.

Meat and milk products cannot be eaten together or prepared with, or eaten off of, the same utensils (no cheeseburgers, Chicken Kiev, or Beef Stroganoff).

All fruits, vegetables, grains and produce are inherently kosher, although certain special laws apply to such products grown in the land of Israel (too complicated to go into).

Thus, if all of the prepared ingredients such as tofu, miso, soy sauce, sake, etc., commonly used in Japanese cooking have been certified to be kosher, it is very easy to eat a wide variety of Japanese food that is perfectly kosher, and thus, "Jewish" in the only sense that is really important: whether it is kosher or not.

A little more difficult with Chinese food, though, what with their fondness for Porky in all of his various guises. Still you can do quite well with other things (e.g., deep-fried flounder with sweet-and-sour vegetables, red-cooked chicken, Mongolian beef with green onions and hot peppers, YOWZA!)

No bugs, maggots, grubs, worms, larvae, skunk, monkey, dog, cat, snake, snails, slugs, amphibians, rodents, etc. need apply.

Earl

[Edited by Earl Hartman on 10-30-2000 at 01:53 PM]

Margaret Lo
30th October 2000, 21:00
Originally posted by Earl Hartman


A little more difficult with Chinese food, though, what with their fondness for Porky in all of his various guises.
[Edited by Earl Hartman on 10-30-2000 at 01:53 PM]

This brings to mind a story I saw on New York City news. A while back a TV station did a "sting" on a Chinese restaurant in the Upper West Side. They ordered the Hunan Lamb, took the "lamb" to a lab where they determined that the lamb had a curly tail and oinked when it was alive. :)

The story was broadcast on the evening news, the restaurant was fined, swore it would never do it again. 6 months later the TV station went back, ordered the lamb again and guess what! Same results.

This in one of the more Jewish parts of New York City. Sneaky sneaky.

-M-

Earl Hartman
30th October 2000, 21:11
Margaret:

That's funny. I thought that ALL parts of New York City are Jewish (rim shot, ba-DUM-bum!).

Lamb has always struck me as a rather un-Chinese meat. Is Hunan home to sheep-herding non-Han people perhaps?

This is a serious question, not a joke; for instance, I have been led to believe that the west of China around Xinxiang the population is primarily Moslem and Turkic-speaking (Uigurs, etc.).

Anyay, China is a huge place, so I would imagine that the culinary variation is greater there than in any other single country.

Earl

john mark
30th October 2000, 21:57
Originally posted by Earl Hartman
That's funny. I thought that ALL parts of New York City are Jewish (rim shot, ba-DUM-bum!).

NYC is a BIG mixing pot -- I'm an ABC, my godfather was Jewish (the Catholic Church can exhibit flexiblitiy in certain circumstances), my wife is Irish Catholic, my best man and my son's godfather is Jewish and my best friend growing up is a Puerto Rican. So much for the gene pool!!


Originally posted by Earl Hartman


Lamb has always struck me as a rather un-Chinese meat. Is Hunan home to sheep-herding non-Han people perhaps?

Lamb is eaten by a lot of Han groups. However, not all Han groups will chow down on cat or other furry animals.


Originally posted by Earl Hartman

This is a serious question, not a joke; for instance, I have been led to believe that the west of China around Xinxiang the population is primarily Moslem and Turkic-speaking (Uigurs, etc.).

Anyay, China is a huge place, so I would imagine that the culinary variation is greater there than in any other single country.

Earl



Hunan is definitely Han, but culturally and, Putonghua notwithstanding, linguistically very different from other Han groups, such as the Cantonese. I believe there are 40 some odd distinct ethnic groups in China. If you include the dialect differences among the Han Chinese, the number goes up dramatically.

I believe that Xinxiang and Tibet Provinces are predominantly non-Han, but they are nevertheless part of China.

I was under the impression that non-scavenger fowls and other living creatures were kosher.

Best,

Earl Hartman
30th October 2000, 22:20
John Mark:

Thanks for the info. Cool family situation you've got going. Sounds like a party at your place would be pretty interesting. (And I thought MY family was mixed.)

The problem with birds is that while in the Torah the quadrupeds and fish are identified as kosher or non-kosher according to certain easily-identifiable physical characteristics, the flying creatures are identified by name. As I understand it, this made it necessary for the sages who interpret the law to deduce the characteristics of kosher birds from the characteristics of those species specifically named (or not named). Since almost all of the birds mentioned specifically as being non-kosher are birds of prey or scavengers (carrion-eaters), and since they share certain characteristics (talons, etc.) all birds sharing those characteristics came to be considered non-kosher.

I'm not enough of an authority to know how the determination is made as to which non-scavenging fowl is kosher, although it seems quite apparent that being a non-scavenger is the most important characteristic. I am sure there are others.

What precisely do you mean by "other living creatures?" That's a pretty broad category.

Earl

john mark
30th October 2000, 22:36
Originally posted by Earl Hartman
The problem with birds is that while in the Torah the quadrupeds and fish are identified as kosher or non-kosher according to certain easily-identifiable physical characteristics, the flying creatures are identified by name. As I understand it, this made it necessary for the sages who interpret the law to deduce the characteristics of kosher birds from the characteristics of those species specifically named (or not named). Since almost all of the birds mentioned specifically as being non-kosher are birds of prey or scavengers (carrion-eaters), and since they share certain characteristics (talons, etc.) all birds sharing those characteristics came to be considered non-kosher.

Learn something new everyday. I didn’t know what is and is not kosher is so complicated.


Originally posted by Earl Hartman
What precisely do you mean by "other living creatures?" That's a pretty broad category.

Serves me right for banging messages out on a BBS while reading other stuff. I was thinking of sea creatures and warm blooded mammals.

Earl Hartman
30th October 2000, 22:54
John Mark:

Hey, why make life easy when you can make it hard?

Re other living creatures, see my post on the 1st page of this thread.

Earl

hyaku
31st October 2000, 00:35
My wife and I are talking about visiting Japan. I want to go for a month...but I anticipate problems. First, my wife is the most picky/finicky eater on the entire planet. I however love to eat new and interesting foods. She does not want to find the Mcdonalds in every town...and I want to venture off the beaten path in Japan to some of the smaller towns and villages. I almost forgot to mention that she does not eat seafood...not at all.

Went we went to Scotland on our honeymoon last year, I ate fish, lamb...anything that was fresh locally. She ate bread, cheese and juice the entire trip.

I would be curious if anyone has any suggestions for fare that my wife could eat on our trip to Japan.

Matane,
Matthew
[/B][/QUOTE]


No problems whatsoever.

The meat counter in Japanese supermarkets is now bigger than the fish one. You can get anything you want if you look for it. We make lot`s of cheese dishe`s, gratin etc. Tons of bread in the supermarket or Bakers that specialize in French, German etc. Every juice you can think of

There are Pizza delivery shops everywhere. You will be really surprised to find a lot of the stuff you get at home in the 24 hour shop, Oreo cookies, Hagen dazs. Most Family restuarants do western set lunches, steak, hamburger etc.

My wife or I shop daily before we go home and alternate between Japanese and Western cuisine.

Last week I asked a class of students to raise their hands for fish or meat most favoured meat.

The only problem is if people take you out they want to give you something special. That`s when the strange foods appear!

The last big party I went to was a freshwater Turtle shop. Everything from blood in the Sake to bodyparts still moving and heads floating in a clear soup!

Nobody hardly touched it except the fried bits. What a waste of money.

Hope this helps, Hyakutake Colin

Earl Hartman
31st October 2000, 01:19
Hyakutake san:

Suppon, huh? Yikes.

Can anybody tell me the reason for the Japanese predeliction for eating stuff that is not dead yet? Of course, looked at the other way, I'm just a sissy because I like my food to not jump around when I try to eat it. Cultural stuff. What can you say?

BTW, I once saw a video of a Chinese chef preparing a fried fish by wrapping a towel around the upper body of a still living carp and deep frying it by plunging the lower part of the body into a wok filled with hot oil.

When it was "done", the lower half of the fish was done to a golden brown crispy turn, and the upper part was not only raw, the fish was still alive!

Holy cannoli. I don't know about you guys, but I really don't relish being watched by the thing I am in the process of eating.

So I'm a sissy. What can you do?

Earl

HanashiBugeisha
31st October 2000, 01:20
Thanks Hyakutake....

This is very helpful information. I am going to tell my wife that everyone in Japan eats turtle head soup...and that she has to try it

Regards,

Matthew Ash

Alacoque
31st October 2000, 10:38
Hi Earl,
Thank you so much for going to the trouble of explaining all about kosher food, it's facinating. As far as I know gunea fowl and partridge are often raised for the table and so you would probably be able to eat them and they are delicious particularly around this time of year. I'm afraid I don't know about grouse as is wild game and usually found in Scotland and the north of England.

Margaret Lo
31st October 2000, 15:34
Hi Earl - I guess I'm a sissy too but hey. I can eat almost anything except something that's still alive. I raise fish and at one time had 2 fire belly toads with 100 toadlets, not to mention fat cats, so I won't eat it if it still breathes.

M