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View Full Version : Hohan Sokan's SECRET notes! Ooooh....



M.C. Busman
22nd May 2004, 08:30
I can't help but think of Spongebob getting wide-eyed over the krabby-patty secret recipe whenever anyone mentions secrets in the martial arts "s-s-s-seeh-crits?!!!".

Rick Moneymaker posted Hohan Sokan's "secret" notes a few years ago. They should be of interest to anyone engaged in the study or pressure points or tuite. Of course, Sokan never wrote these as a "secret". They were passed out to students (and a few visiting American Sensei) when Sokan was in the USA many years ago, and to students at the base in Okinawa. Rick's comments say it all. Be patient for the download:

http://www.dragonsociety.com/index.php?template=dsi/secretmain.htm&storeid=1


Take Care,

M.C. Busman
mc_busman@Bigmailbox.net

Roderick Titan
23rd May 2004, 00:42
I don't know who Moneymaker is, but that name says it all I think. He must be a Dillman protege. Dillman got a copy of Fusei Kise's student PP charts a few years back, and he keeps lying about how Soken gave them to him. Whatever. I ain't got time to make time for time wasting. Fuggetaboutthefriggindownload, he ain't on the down-low!

Look you want to do real tuite? Then train with a real old school Okinawan karate instructor. If you can't find one then that's good. Not everything of value should be offered to the general public. I think most folks who want or need convenience and a feeling of learning SD should just stick to their local McDojo system. Leave the real stuff to the dedicated people; the one's who will pick-and-choose who their students will be and ask the same of their students. The people who will even travel long distances to train with a real sensei.

You can't learn real karate overnight, but kickboxing should suffice even if it's watered down punch/block/kick tag. You could also crosstrain and do MMAs. Know that you can truly evaluate what's good for you. Have faith that everything you've been taught in MAs is law- for you. Have faith in your ability to discern what is proper and inappropriate for you. Quit looking, searching, seeking and not finding. You are wasting valuable time. The truth is everyone doesn't deserve to know real karate, or many other "real" things. They don't have the respect, dedication, intelligence, skill or foresight to deserve to know these things. Just like most things in life.

Heck, there are plenty of scheister's doing supposed real karate so I should shut my trap! That's all. Have a great week.

"Ostentatiously chill, just about to get ill "...:)Bow-Legged Lou of Full Force

M.C. Busman
23rd May 2004, 18:47
Roderick Titan wrote: "I don't know who Moneymaker is, but that name says it all I think. He must be a Dillman protege. Dillman got a copy of Fusei Kise's student PP charts a few years back, and he keeps lying about how Soken gave them to him. Whatever. I ain't got time to make time for time wasting. Fuggetaboutthefriggindownload, he ain't on the down-low!"


Putting aside that none of us choose our last names (not generally at any rate),the notes offered on the link are accurate and undoctored. These are scans of a handout that was passed out by Matsumura Seito-ha teachers. At the time, it was the most detailed thing in English. George Dillman obtained a copy back in the early eighties. I can only guess that it was either when he met Soken the one time, or perhaps Dillman received the notes second hand--there is no way to know for certain now. He was never a "student" of the man, and it is puzzling that he ever hinted at this (were his own studies not enough?).

The documents were handouts for students of Soken's Matsumura Seito-ha school. Kise was Soken's protege prior to Soken's death in 1982 (before Kise created the Kenshinkan--the name was recently changed again). These notes, as I implied in my original post, were never "secret". Even Moneymaker grouses over this claim of "secret notes" from Dillman (he doesn't name Dillman directly--but anyone who has been following the flap remembers the original claims from Dillman regarding his system being based on secret notes from an Okinawan master). I am guessing this is why Moneymaker posted the handouts publically. Anyone from that period of time knows that these were not "secret notes"(!), as Dillman alluded, but handouts given to students of Matsumura Seito-ha.

They are worth looking at, as they are authentic. I am not connected to Rick Moneymaker in any way--other than I know of the link to the aforementioned writing.

Roderick Titan wrote: "Look you want to do real tuite? Then train with a real old school Okinawan karate instructor. If you can't find one then that's good. Not everything of value should be offered to the general public. I think most folks who want or need convenience and a feeling of learning SD should just stick to their local McDojo system. Leave the real stuff to the dedicated people; the one's who will pick-and-choose who their students will be and ask the same of their students. The people who will even travel long distances to train with a real sensei."

As a practitioner of an Okinawan system, I should point out to my fellow ebudoka (who don't know)...Many Okinawan teachers (like many those of other nationalities, including my own--USA) are no less likely nowadays to water down and spread out curriculum over many years which previously only took them 2-7 years of dilligent study to master. Now we have systems which are teaching kata which were originally taught at ikkyu or shodan, at nanadan and hachidan?!! (This became a big problem with the white crane fad and accompanying mysticism). Today an "Asian Master" is no less likely to burden the honest student/teacher who just wants to learn/teach with bureaucracy and fee after fee. Non-Okinawans have learned karate, and many Okinawans have learned the Art of McDojo. Even the structure of Okinawa No Karate classes on the island has changed drastically! There are teachers there who sell 9th and 10th dan for the right amount (usually 5000.00+)...some of them well respected men. Everyone has to make a living, I guess...right?

I don't recommend that anyone dedicate their life to one individual in hopes of maybe, someday, being let in on the "secrets". In a few years of dilligent study (anatomy classes and books, physics, practical research at the dojo), you should figure this stuff out. It isn't rocket science (I'm sure that statement will offend some people--it wasn't meant as a put down). It is faster and probably cheaper than spending one's precious time and money waiting to, ~maybe~, be spoon-fed a few tidbits when Master thinks you're ready, waiting for things to trickle down the line of command while having the carrot waived in front of your nose for a few more years ("and after I teach you this, there's still that..."). When you learn things through your own efforts, you retain a better understanding of the context and depth of the subject--as opposed to "master told me so!"

Even medical students have a set curriculum over a period of years...there is no getting to the 4th year of medical school and being told "re-inroll for 2 more years...we have more secrets to teach you!" The competent physician continues to learn as s/he practices--after all, medicine and most other occupations crafts are always adapting new and better ways to do things. Maybe not the perfect analogy...but I think my fellows will understand.

The purpose of this post was to share the knowledge. I do not believe in "secrets". Unless one is talking about hard work and study...


Happy Day,

M.C. Busman
mc_busman@Bigmailbox.net