define this

[Liam Cognet]

I think this is the correct place to post this question.

Gendai and Koryu, what are the definitions?

Jujutsu is Koryu, Judo is Gendai.

Kenjutsu is Koryu, kendo is Gendai? Correct?

What about Koryu karate? Is that still Gendai?

Sorry about this question. I r confused.

[meat]

Unless I'm very sorely mistaken, Koryu and Karate put together is an oxymoron. Karate is a martial art indigenous to the Ryukyu Islands, it wasn't seen in Japan until Funakoshi and others brought it over. Thus because it wasn't founded in Japan, it can't be classified as koryu. So yes, karate is gendai.

[Chuck.Gordon]

Originally posted by Liam Cognet [/B]

Gendai -- New things, referring to some of the newer budo systems, often amalgam systems (karate, judo, kendo, aikido, etc).

Koryu -- Lit. "Old flow", refers to older systems of budo, though the definition of 'old' varies widely.

>Jujutsu is Koryu, Judo is Gendai.

Not exactly. Some jujutsu is pretty much gendai, and some of the arts included in the judo curriculum (the Kito Ryu stuff, notably) came from koryu sources.

>Kenjutsu is Koryu, kendo is Gendai? Correct?

More or less.

>What about Koryu karate? Is that still Gendai?

Koryu karate? Tweren't none, actually. There were older systems of Okinawan boxing/fighting systems, but 'karate' only came to be fairly recently, in historic terms.

In my mind (OK, no cracks from youse guys), the terms gendai and koryu are pretty vague and only useful as broad guidelines, really. And don't even get me started on the DO vs JUTSU fallacy!

Chuck

[kobukai]

Technically those Japanese martial arts formed after the Meiji restoration.

[kobukai]

Oh - and do vs. jutsu - I can save you some time. Jutsu is the study of a fighting system in order to fight. Do is using the study of a fighting system to accomplish other positive things other than fighting. Neither is right or wrong, more or less effective. They are what they are and work perfectly if used for what they were intended. A DO can become a Jutsu with a mere attitude change, and visa versa. It is that simple - but often people dont want it to be that simple - but it is.

[MarkF]

In my mind (OK, no cracks from youse guys), the terms gendai and koryu are pretty vague and only useful as broad guidelines, really. And don't even get me started on the DO vs JUTSU fallacy!


You won't get any "cracks" from me, not over that, anyway.


Mark