Help. BUjinkan Depressioon...Can I ever go back?

[Kenseii]

Some of you may remember me from a couple of years back ...but anyway. On to the point.

II started training with the BUjinkan Ryuko Dojo about 7 years ago, during that time I have had several "Hiatuses" for different reason: 1st one due to health and injuries, second due to work. But it's the third one I want to talk about.
I found that for whatever reason the atmosphere in the Dojo I trained in just felt wrong, there were number of reason for this:
1) I wasnt really "in" with any of the cliques and social groups that existed amongtst the class (having an awkward job and a girlfriend at home to hurry back to I didnt go out to the pub with them or whatever), and as such when i tcame to pairing off I found myself being stuck with those that noone else wanted to train with (the people with no concept of reasonable contact, a bad attitude, BO, or all of the above). This also led to problem 2.

2) I was training with people who, due to haveing attended more clases than myself were higher grades thatn I was and as such saw them selves as superior to myself, when they misinterpreted technbiques I was bound to doing it their way (being technically a lower grade I felt that I wasnt ina position to argue, even when they were grossly misinterpreting a technique, past the point of henka). as such I felt awkward a lot of the time.

The two above factors, comnbined with 1 or 2 other things meant that I let my training slip as I found "Other things to do".
I have felt a deep love for Ninpo and Taijutsu for many years and it saddens me that I have been unable to "get back into the swing of things".

It's been 18 months since my last class, i've put on a lot of weight (Almost to the point where I think that my weight would hamper my training, i'm not fat, but i'm heavy and my damaged joints (damageded due to my early training in the BBD and aggressive inline skating) in particular my knees may not be up to the strain), and dont feel confident about going back.

I'm not sure my Sensei would welcome me back (it's hardly as if my regular breaks make me look like a committed student), but I would love to be able to experience the inner peace I once did when training.

What do I do?

A bit of background:
I train(ed) at the AFC in Newcastle Upon Tyne Under Sensei John Aitkin (One of the most talented and interesting instructors I have ever had the honour to train with).
I'm 6th Kyu (ALthough I doubt if I deserve the rank any longer, I havent forgotten anything but terminology and athough the mind is willing the soul seems to be "lacking")
I dont have any "Real" obstacles to trining, my GF is more undersatnding than she was and and work is no obstacle)

[Kokoro]

Kenneth

The only piece of advise I can give you is to either call John and see what his reaction is, if you didn't leave on bad terms I wouldn't have thought this was a problem or go along to the class and see what happens.

We all have periods where training lapses, although we don't always admit it. Life has a way of putting cetain things as a priority, and not always the Martial Arts.

Get in touch and see what happens, good luck
:)

[Kenseii]

I was thinking of contacting John for some private lessons to buid my confidence before rejoining the class.
That way I can also see if I still have it in me.

[Oni]

Hrm,

Please understand I mean no disrespect to your prior school or instructor as I do not know them...I can only go on what you have voiced above.

Are you positive this is the 'right' school for you in the first place? The problems you have mentioned experiencing are ones I personally would not put up with in a place I chose as 'home'.

At my school we discourage 'cliques'...and pretty much everyone regardless of their time spent in the dojo is welcomed and treated warmly.

I also discourage the kind of 'teaching' I see going on at many schools between students while training. A simple reminder of which foot to use, to not bend your back, to follow through a little more, etc is one thing...but 'teaching' (or misteaching as is so often the case) is frowned upon.

Finally...



the people with no concept of reasonable contact, a bad attitude, BO, or all of the above


One might ask why these people are allowed to maintain these habits. Sure everyone has 'BO' from time to time...particularly if training hard...but if they continually show up with bad hygeine perhaps someone needs to have a sit down chat with them and politely discuss the issue.

I am not sure about your area...but I know most areas have options when it comes to training. Perhaps your lack of motivation is more due to your interactions with this training group than anything else. If nothing else I would suggest discussing your concerns with the instructor before returning. Your training is your own and you only have so much time to do it. Might as well make it the best experience you possibly can. A skilled instructor is not always worth the negative experiences you may have to go through to train with him.

Finally I just want to reiterate...it may be a great place to train with great people and you have just had some misfortune. It may be a great place, just not the right place for you....or it may be a great place for you, but you will need to make some adjustments to make it thus. Just want to throw out something for you to consider.

[Kenseii]

I found, in the past the school that I trained in to be excellent. Unfortunately therer are (or at leats were) a few "bad eggs" that , if not ocrrected made training unpleasant, unfortunately it's not always easy to identify these people unless you are training with them.

As to other training option, no there arent any n my area, and my experiences with other BUjinkan classes have been very negative (I trained once or twice in Northern Ireland and was, i'm afraid not impressed by what I learned).

Overall most of my experiences of the class in Newcastle have been excellent, unfortunately there were an increasing number of bad experience in the latte rpart of my time there.

[Oni]

Originally posted by Kenseii


Overall most of my experiences of the class in Newcastle have been excellent, unfortunately there were an increasing number of bad experience in the latte rpart of my time there.

I would certainly consider trying to arrange a meeting with your instructor then. I know from experience he may or may not be aware of the things that you consider to be bad experiences. I have had students come to me in the past with concerns that I had not noticed, but was very appreciative to have had brought to my attention. I have made some pretty big changes before based on student feedback and find it can be very valuable and important.

Go into it with an open mind and a desire to share your experiences and concerns. Understand that nothing may come of it, but it certainly can't hurt to make the attempt. Its certainly not the easiest thing in the world to do, but I know at least in my case I was very happy to have had my students voice their concerns rather than just fade away as so many do.

Sincerely,

[Kenseii]

Thanks for the help, i've got a lot to think about.

[Sillal]

What do I do?

Train when you are skinny, train when you are fat, train when you want to, train when you don't want to and avoid the people you don't like training with.

[Kenseii]

That last is easier said than done, given that noone else likes training with them either, and i'm not exactly best buddioes with the others (like I said, I dont move in the same social circles).

As for training when I dont want to, what is the point in that.

As you may have guessed I am, at this moment going through one of my (increasingly regular) bouts of apathy.

[JMYoung]

I don't think it's ever too late to go back. I'm sure many teachers realize that people run into training obstacles at some point. I'd bet that many teachers themselves hit a roadblock, and took a break from training for whatever reason. We're all human.

I think the idea of a couple private lessons is a good one. Talk your concerns over with him, and get back into the swing of things. Is it possible to get a friend into training? I found being a dojo newbie was always easier when I had a friend of similar skill with me to make mistakes with. :) Lessens any feelings of holding the class back, and you have a training partnet outside of class, in case your schedule doesn't mesh well with the dojo's.

[Sillal]

That last is easier said than done, given that noone else likes training with them either, and i'm not exactly best buddioes with the others (like I said, I dont move in the same social circles).

Well if noone likes training with them it should make it easier. You are paying for training, if people are preventing you from training then don't train with them. This is not that hard.

[william northcote]

There is a problem with Newcastle and that is the social aspect of the city. In Newcastle you are either out drinking, watching/supporting the local soccer team or having fun. But the social aspect is not very socialble. You take a walk round Newcastle wearing a Sunderland soccer team Tee-shirt and you will not be long in getting into the ambulance after a swift kicking in a side alley. Basically Newcastle is a rough area.

So if our bud here decides not to go with them drinking then that is his decision. No one can force him to not go drinking. But as they do not wish to train with him as they see him as a non drinker in their clicque, then they are losing out on someone that is willing to learn.

Kenseii, find someone that you can train with and see if they can train with you not only inside the dojo but outside also. The idea of a 1 to 1 instruction is also a good idea too.

[monkeyboy_ssj]

I must admit also that one of the reason I left was because of some of the reason you said.

I liked the Dojo and Duncan was very skilled teaching and doing techniques, but some of the people there, to be honest, were abit up themselves, doing techniques wrong or just being a bit bitchy.

Such as doing arm locks, really forcing it against you with all thier might telling you you're doing it wrong, when you know you're not and not wanting to have to properly break their arm if you did want to do it right.

I made you look like an idiot when Duncan was coming around and checking.

Them not realising that I'd easily had 10 times more MA experience then they did, but because you are lower ranking in that art you can't go around 'showing off' per say...

I think Duncan should have discouraged this to be honest but it's quite hard to spot.

Oh yeah, also when this curly hair guy told me I was punching wrong?!? I'm not talking about a ninpo punch, I mean I was the attacker throwing a street punch, I do bloody Wing Chun! I know how to do a western style street fight punch...

So yeah...don't want to go on but to be honest it sounds like what the same thing as I went through, which is Ninpo just wasn't for me. Alot of it was me not the art which took me a while to realise. I think you should find another art to be honest mate.

Actually scrap that, I'm the only white guy in an All Korean class now and I know they call me all sorts of names! reverse racism, gotta love it!

Cheers

[fOOZ]

How is that reverse racism?

[Robert Miller]

Kenseii,
I noticed that you posted this thread on Kutaki as well, so you must really be reaching for some help. What are you doing that you enjoy in your life? Was your girlfriend pulling you away from your training, or were you using her as an excuse to cut out? Do they serve non-alcoholic beverages in pubs? (I've never been to the UK...)
Are you training now? You mentioned you were getting fat, is this because you are being lazy, eating too much, or have a "fat" gene? Have you talked to a counselor, or thought about medication, for this depression?
Training offers a wonderful opportunity to achieve physical and mental health, but the person who needs to decide whether or not you will let apathy rule is you...guess what? If you want to be Bujinkan or train taijutsu/ninjutsu, all you got'ta do is train. Go to seminars and stuff once in a while.
Save your pennies and go to Japan. (Get a membership card first.) The important thing is for you to take control.
Fudoshin-cultivate it.
It shouldn't matter if the cliques don't like you. It's training. Walk up to the highest ranked student and take your bow, say the magic words "oneigashimas?", right there in front of your shidoshi. If your sempai says, "no, I only train with my hetero-life partners whom I drink beer with.." well who's the bum then? Probably the shidoshi, because he obviously forgot to teach his students some etiquette.
You know why the Japanese are so polite? Because by Western standards they are damn liars. It's true! So when your sempai tries to teach you something you think is wrong, say, "Oh, ok!" Then do what you were doing before, but file what they said in the ole' gray matter...you could learn something! Oh, while I'm problem solving, if some sempai muscles a lock 'er something, squeel like thi:

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
(with very high pitch)

They will stop muscling you, then...well, eventually.
There you go! I believe I have solved every problem you have except for getting off you (admittedly) fat @ss.

Gambatte!

[william northcote]

fOOZ revers racism is when they are training in their art and you are the outsider. What Monkeyboy does is train in a Korean dojo run by Koreans for Koreans. He has worked into there by commitment and not by walking in and asking to be taught. In a post last year he said that it took weeks to get into that training from them and they are looking at him as the rank outsider.

Personally I would disregard the last post Kenseii as on Kutaki you will get a better and more realistic answer than that one and with less vitriol.

[fOOZ]

so it's reverse racism because they are giving him an easy time because he's not Korean? like, treating him well? hmm..

It just sorta sounded like he was being talked about and getting a hard time, because he wasn't Korean, this would be racism.

[william northcote]

No he is the outsider within the training hall. But they do teach him so with any sort of negative towards him, the training makes it a bigger plus.

[monkeyboy_ssj]

It's racism that has positive effects for me and no negative, and I like it. I know they are only joking and the harder they push me the better I see it.

Yes racism is racism but I coined the term to show that it doesn't have any negative conertations. :)

Cheers

p.s. I do have my digs back at their wired over English business school accents ;)

[stormy]

Quote:II started training with the BUjinkan Ryuko Dojo about 7 years ago, during that time I have had several "Hiatuses" for different reason: 1st one due to health and injuries, second due to work. But it's the third one I want to talk about.
I found that for whatever reason the atmosphere in the Dojo I trained in just felt wrong, there were number of reason for this:
1) I wasnt really "in" with any of the cliques and social groups that existed amongtst the class (having an awkward job and a girlfriend at home to hurry back to I didnt go out to the pub with them or whatever), and as such when i tcame to pairing off I found myself being stuck with those that noone else wanted to train with (the people with no concept of reasonable contact, a bad attitude, BO, or all of the above). This also led to problem 2.

2) I was training with people who, due to haveing attended more clases than myself were higher grades thatn I was and as such saw them selves as superior to myself, when they misinterpreted technbiques I was bound to doing it their way (being technically a lower grade I felt that I wasnt ina position to argue, even when they were grossly misinterpreting a technique, past the point of henka). as such I felt awkward a lot of the time.Unquote.

Hi Ken, it`s Norman Smithers, you probably remember me also from training with John, i`ve got to dissagree with you on these two statements, i`ve known John for nearly 16 years, i also know most of his students, like you i was part of the Ryuko dojo under Keith Porter, John would NOT allow cliques in his club and he certainly would not condone his students acting superior to others, i agree with the other replies you`ve had, talk to John, he`s mellowed out since he became a father, why not give him a call, you might be surprised.

Cheers

Norman

[fOOZ]

Thanks for clearin that up :P

good trainin!

but to split hairs I guess you could say it's racially discriminating against everyone else in the class, but I wouldn't say that at all :P

[ElfTengu]

The hardest thing and the only obstacle, and it is as much as one for me also, is just getting the willpower to turn up.

If you can do that consistently, all of the other problems will disappear (cliques etc) because everyone is 'new' at sometime, be it new to the art, new to a particular club, or worst of all, which is your predicament, new all over again at the same club in the same art.

You have to swallow your pride and forget grades, especially those of other people, because you are on your own path and anyone else's is meaningless. If you do have more experience than them, then at least you should feel confident that you will have an improved chance of survival when your skills are called for in earnest, but then, again like me, it is a shock to the system when you find that you don't take to training again as easily as you had expected. I grew to think I was fantastic in the years I didn't train, and now know that I am not.

Also, don't train purely for 'recognition' of what you've done before. We all like to be reassured of our value as a human being, especially in circles where we want to 'belong', but the only problem is our own insecurity, which is the wrong reason to train or do anything else in life.

I know what things I have done well in life, but unfortunately martial arts is not one of them.

I for one am particularly guilty of not training as much as I should. I can't train regularly for several reasons, none of which is health related thankfully, and my problem is that it is difficult getting into the routine of training when it is so sporadic, and turning up once is difficult when I know I can't make it again for a month due to genuine reasons, when I should endeavour to do so in spite of this.

And I'm getting fat too. But I know how quickly it falls off when I do train regularly. If I think about losing the weight before going back to regular training, then I've already had my last lesson!

It's terrible when you love something so much and can't just get on with it. I bet you get bouts of energy at times when there's no training session to go to, but rarely when there's a session to go to. This relegates us to the status of 'ninjutsu enthusiast' which is the equivalent of about 20th kyu, if we honestly admit it.

This is par for the course unfortunately. There aren't all-day ninjutsu gyms like there are for fitness fanatics and boxers, at least not in the UK.

Luckily I can find no fault with my club, but even if I did, I'd like to think I'd persevere anyway, because something is making all those other people turn up week after week, even at the club you mentioned, and that is how they will have overcome their own issues with 'acceptance'.

For anyone else here in the same boat, let's make a pact to do something about this and then report back to e-budo with how we're doing. Ignore all the 'experts', even though they mean well and often have valid points to make, because it's all too easy to give advice from their position.

I've got two stone to lose before my holiday in 8 weeks so wish me luck and know that I have done likewise!

I'm also going to join a regular gym and get a bodybuilder friend to drag me along kicking and screaming until I can turn up under my own steam, which should help with willpower for other things such as martial arts, getting out of my dead-end job, giving up smoking, and cutting back on booze and junk food!

And if i fail to do any of the above, I'll be back to admit it.

[Kenseii]

Thanks for the reply Norman.

I guess on reflection a lot of what I said is just personal misinterpretation. I get used to being an outsider and I find it easier to see that as the case than to actually look deeper into the issue.

What i'm going to do is:

I've just joined a Gym and i'm going to work out for while, get my fitness back up. When i'm a bit more comfortable with my self then i'm gonna go back. I think once I get over the confidence issues I am having i'll have little problem with going back.

Thanks all, you've helped lot.