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Doug Daulton
1st November 2000, 06:32
Below is a preliminary list of links to additional information on the Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts.

Those of you who are checking out the other Okinawan Martial Arts (OMA) Forums will notice that this list is considerably shorter than the others.

When doing initial research I found a plethora of "official sites" for the various ryuha of the Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts. Obviously, I am not in a position to judge the veracity of the claims on all of these sites.

The 4 sites on my list were selected because I know the folks who run them and can validate their claims. I would like to do the same for everyone. So I'd ask a bit of help from each of you.

Please provide me with the official links for each of the following ryuha (listed in no particular order) ...

<li> Goju-ryu (main line and off-shoots)
<li> Uechi-ryu (main line and off-shoots)
<li> Kobayashi Shorin-ryu (main line and off-shoots)
<li> Shobayashi Shorin-ryu (main line and off-shoots)
<li> Matsubayashi Shorin-ryu
<li> Matusmura Orthodox Shorin-ryu
<li> Isshin-ryu

As far as I know, these are the "major" Okinawan ryuha. If I've forgotten any, major or minor, no slight was intended. My knowledge is certainly not all-inclusive. Please feel free to modify this list as necessary.

It is my intention to create as comprehensive a list as possible to refer to as a FAQ of sorts. For now, I'd like to restrain this list to ryuha only. So, for the moment, let's save URLs to western organizations and loose affiliations for another thread.

Thanks,

_____________________
Doug Daulton
Moderator
Okinawan Martial Arts

<b>LINKS: Ryukyuan Unarmed Martial Arts</b><font size="2"><ul type="disc"><li><a href="http://http://www.okinawakaratedo.com/">http://www.okinawakaratedo.com <br>(replaces Kenkyujo.com: The Okinawan Budo Research Center</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.matsubayashi-ryu.com/">World Matsubayashi-ryu Karate-do Associaton</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.kenkyukai.net/">Matsubayashi-ryu Kenkukai (Research Society)</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.shinjinbukan.com/">Shinjinbukan: Onaga Yoshimitsu - Uchideshi of Higa Yuchoku</a></li>
</ul></font>

[Edited by Doug Daulton on 11-01-2000 at 08:54 AM]

JS3
7th November 2000, 19:17
http://www.okinawa-budou.org/
http://www.uechi-ryu.com/

Joe Swift
8th November 2000, 00:50
Okinawa Karate Kenkyukan - Nafadi, Uechiryu, Ryukyu Kobudo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bench/4784/

JosephBlow
16th November 2000, 01:03
There is no "official" web page for Matsumura Seito, but here is one of the unofficial pages with credibility:

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/5699

Completely unbiased of course. ;-)

waza22
16th November 2000, 23:59
Gentlemen,

Please be carefull on that last link.
Regards,
William D. Gray

JosephBlow
17th November 2000, 00:49
Dear Mr. Gray,

What's there to be careful about?

You're free to have differing views and my joke about being objective pointed out that there are multiple views on Matsumura out there. If you must take something away from another group, next time please express those views in a productive way (i.e., by suggesting a website you like better). If you feel compelled to warn the beguiled masses, please be fair to all by telling them precisely of what they should beware.

I had a pleasant phone call with your teacher earlier in the week. While he and I differ on some points, we found plenty of things upon which we agree. Again, I don't have a problem if with disagreement, but please avoid casting reckless aspersions by being more specific. It's much more helpful to everyone.

Respectfully,

Rich Boyden

p.s. If you want to discuss this further, let's take it offline -- my e-mail is kawatteru@yahoo.com.

[Edited by JosephBlow on 11-17-2000 at 06:29 AM]

waza22
17th November 2000, 22:51
Mr. Boyden,

No offense was meant by my comment and not trying to take anything away from anyone I have found myself (sometimes unwantingly) in the middle of the politics involving Matsumura Shorin-Ryu and have found that it is a messy place indeed. I have met allot of great people and some that I just had to agree to disagree.
I am sorry for not stateing my reason's for my post, and after thinking about it would serve no good purpose to do so now.
Regards,
William D. Gray

P.S. I would love to talk to you via e-mail about this art, not to bicker just to trade some information perhaps. Also I did not think Mr. Hunnicutt was back in town yet as he was scheduled to be in Okinawa till the 16th.

Doug Daulton
21st July 2001, 15:42
Folks,

I am in the process of updating this link list. Please provide links in replies to this thread. I will compile the results into a master list which will act as an FAQ/reference library for this forum.

Thanks,

Doug Daulton
Moderator
Okinawan Martial Arts

PS: Thanks to Jim Kass for the nudge to update this. :cool:

27th July 2001, 11:00
Mr. Dalton,
Here are a few links that may be helpful in your search:
http://www.karateshorinkan.com/popup.htm
http://web-hou.iapc.net/~kmap/
http://www.karate.tni.net/
http://members.tripod.com/~sk000/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/suiken000/

The 4th link is accessed by minimizing the accompanying tripod ad-page. Have a wonderful weekend!
Bryan Seer

Jussi Häkkinen
11th August 2001, 01:06
Shorin-Ryu Seibukan (Sukunai Hayashi, Kyan Chotoku lineage) www.seibukan.org

Okinawan Shorinji-Ryu (Sukunai Hayashi, Kyan Chotoku lineage), Joen Nagazato's style. (Haven't found URL, but I think this justifiedly has a place in your list).


You seemed to forget Sukunai Hayashi (Shorin-Ryu) out.
Writing form is exactly the same that Shaolin-uses, style is also clearly a part of Okinawan karate tradition.

Ginko
12th August 2001, 22:20
Okinawa Shorinji-Ryu Zentokukai Karate-Do

http://www.zentokukai.com/

It’s purpose is to preserve the teachings of Masters Kyan Chotoku and Shimabukuro Zenryo, two of Okinawa’s greatest karatemen.

Jay Setser

Joe Paden
20th August 2001, 15:00
I have noticed there is not a description or links for Isshin-ryu. Isshin-ryu was
created by Tatsuo Shimabuku (1908-1975). He studied with Chotokyu Kyan,
Chojun Myiagi, Choki Motobu, and Taira Shinken.

There are many branches of Isshin-ryu, led by people who trained with Shimabuku
at different times of his life, so there are different aspects taught by the different students of
Shimabuku.

I am only listing my knowledge of the sites out there, if I leave any out, please inform me, I
would like to know. I have only listed groups that have kept ties to Okinawa.
I have not listed in any certain order.

Isshin-ryu World Karate Association
Kichiro Shimabuku- 1st born son of Tatsuo Sensei.
http://www.isshinryukarate.com/

Okinawa Isshin-ryu Karate & Kobudo Association
Angi Uezu- Son in law of Tatsuo Sensei. Uezu turned OIKKA over to Tsuyoshi Uechi due to
health problems.
http://www.oikka.com/

Isshin-Kai
Arcenio Advincula- 1st generation student of Tatsuo Sensei. Tatsuo Sensei nicknamed
Advincula "Katagwa" (kataman) because of his knowledge of kata.
http://isshin1.com/

If I missed something, it is because my knowledge is limited.

Joey Paden, Maryland

28th August 2001, 01:15
DUPLICATE THREAD

To see this thread in context, please follow this link ...

Matsubayashi-ryu Thread in the OMA-RUMA Forum (http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=64341#post64341)

Thanks,

Doug Daulton
Moderator
Okinawan Martial Arts Forum

Doug Daulton
31st August 2001, 04:05
The following link may be of intressed.
http://www.iogkf.com/honbu/aboutg.html
It is the officel site of the I.O.G.K.F.
An organisation dedicated to promot Okinawa goju ryu karate do

Greetings Chris de Jongh.

[Moved by Moderator]

Carlos
10th December 2001, 03:51
There are alot of Isshinryu website. Well over 30 to 40. Go to www.isshinryu-is-life.com then go to sites to visit then go to Isshinryu sites. Take Care
Carlos

JS3
29th August 2002, 02:59
http://members.fortunecity.com/okinawa_karate/

"This page is owned and maintained on Okinawa by the UechiRyu Zankai, an association dedicated to preserving Old-Style UechiRyu KarateDo as taught by its Founder, UECHI Kanbun Sensei. The Owner and President of the UechiRyu Zankai is TOYAMA Seiko Sensei, Hanshi Kyudan, of the Zakimi Shubukan, Yomitan Okinawa."


http://www.shorinryushorinkan.com/

"Welcome to the web site of the Sensei Doug Perry's Okinawan Shorin-Ryu Shorinkan Karate and Kobudo Dojo."

macvsog
14th January 2003, 03:45
Ok this is for all the experts out here in e budo i came across these pictures in a closet at a civic center that i volunteer at and these was from a class that was held there in the early 80's.

See if you all know who they are, i know i dont know who they are but maybe somebody out here will know.

macvsog
14th January 2003, 03:50
here is another one for you all to rack your brains with

Gene Williams
14th January 2003, 04:43
Hi, This one is Shoshin Nagamine of Matsubayashi Shorin ryu. He wrote "The Essence of Okinawan Karate-do", a great book. Gene

Doug Daulton
14th January 2003, 04:43
Originally posted by macvsog
Ok this is for all the experts out here in e budo i came across these pictures in a closet at a civic center that i volunteer at and these was from a class that was held there in the early 80's.

See if you all know who they are, i know i dont know who they are but maybe somebody out here will know.

Takayoshi Nagamine

Doug Daulton
14th January 2003, 04:44
Originally posted by macvsog
here is another one for you all to rack your brains with

Shoshin Nagamine

Gene Williams
14th January 2003, 05:09
Hi Doug, I notice that Shito-ryu is never listed among major Okinawan ryu. I am curious as to why that is? I know that when Mabuni moved to Osaka, Shito-ryu kind of exploded there and is often mistakenly thought of as a Japanese ryu, which it definitely is not. There are still several different branches of Shito-ryu in Okinawa. I've been in Shito-ryu for 30 years and have never heard it referred to as anything other than Okinawan. On the other hand, when you ask a Japanese what are the major styles in Japan, you usually hear, Shotokan, Wado,Shito-ryu, and Goju-ryu. Only the first two are really Japanese. Help me out here. Thanks. Gene

Nyuck3X
14th January 2003, 18:28
www.ihadojo.com

Iha Sensei is the North American representitive
for Miyahira's ShiDo Kan dojo. Miyahira and Nakazato
Sensei were both students of Chibana.

Doug Daulton
14th January 2003, 19:40
Originally posted by Gene Williams
Hi Doug, I notice that Shito-ryu is never listed among major Okinawan ryu. I am curious as to why that is? I know that when Mabuni moved to Osaka, Shito-ryu kind of exploded there and is often mistakenly thought of as a Japanese ryu, which it definitely is not. There are still several different branches of Shito-ryu in Okinawa. I've been in Shito-ryu for 30 years and have never heard it referred to as anything other than Okinawan. On the other hand, when you ask a Japanese what are the major styles in Japan, you usually hear, Shotokan, Wado,Shito-ryu, and Goju-ryu. Only the first two are really Japanese. Help me out here. Thanks. Gene Mr. Williams,

That is a good question. I would assume Shito-ryu is generally considered a Japanese ryuha because most of the well-known proponents ... Sakagami Ryusho, Demura Fumio, Hayashi Teruo... are Japanese. And, like Shotokan (also derived from an Okinawan source) most Shito-ryu has adapted a more Japanese teaching method and general form (longer stances, broader more open kamae).

Couple those factors with the fact that most of Shito-ryu's Western practitioners are students of mainland Japanese teachers ... who in my experience and with all due respect, generally refer to all things Okinawan as Japanese ... and on the world stage, Shito-ryu is Japanese, not Okinawan.

So there is my two yen. I hope nothing I said came across as brusque or disrespectful, as that is certainly not my intent. Over the years, I have trained and competed against many students of Hayashi-ha Shito-ryu and have great respect for that school. In addition, Demura Sensei and his student Bill Stoner Sensei used to help out with a fundraiser we held in Cincinnati every year. Both men are outstanding teachers, practitioners and genuinely nice fellows in my experience.

Regards,

Doug Daulton

PS: It would be interesting to know of the many Shito-ryu schools on Okinawa, how many are shibu (branch) dojo of an Okinawan Shito-ryu line and how many are shibu of a Japanese line.

Gene Williams
15th January 2003, 04:07
Hi Doug, Bill Stoner is a friend of mine, though I haven't seen him in about 6 years. I used to train in his dojo when I travelled to see my in laws in New Castle. We are not of the Demura line...they do the Heian kata as well as the Pinan, which I see as very caving in to Japanese. I'm going to research the question about the Okinawan branches because that is a good question. I trained under a man named Kota Higioshi to begin with back in the late sixties/early seventies. He was from around Osaka and studied with one of Mabuni's shihan. He always spoke of Shito-ryu as Okinawan. The rest of my training has been with seniors of Shogo Kuniba and I have trained with him at several camps and clinics over the years. He also referred to Shito ryu as Okinawan, and even called his branch Motobu-ha Shito-ryu. We do no Japanese kata, no kokutsu dachi, form the Okinawan old style fist, and do the Naha kata with the old breathing. There is a Matsubayashi Shorin school near us, and we do the kata almost identically. Kuniba trained with Nagamine some, too. I remember Billy Stoner saying how different we were although we mostly did the same kata. Interesting. I really do think Mabuni's move to Osaka and the growth of Shito-ryu there led to the perception that it is Japanese. Secret: it really isn't,shhhhhh! Thanks, Gene

macvsog
24th January 2003, 22:17
Here is another item i found while cleaning out a store room. anyone know what it means

macvsog
24th January 2003, 22:20
here is the other side of the book

macvsog
24th January 2003, 22:25
heres a cover of the other book i found what is it and whats it for

macvsog
24th January 2003, 22:28
ok last one for you to tell me what it is ive got here. inside of the books are all in kanji

macvsog
25th January 2003, 21:08
Has anyone been able to decipher the book covers ive posted yet



Mac Vincent

ghp
26th January 2003, 02:07
Macvsog --

The first one:

1. Nagamine Shoshin Hanshi
2. Prefectural Physical Education xxxxxx memorial/anniversary.
3. KARATEDO KOBUJUTSU ENBU [performance] TAIKAI
4. Shorin Ryu (in Eng), below it states "Matsu Bayashi"
-- Time: Showa 55 [1980], April 5, 6 pm.
-- Place: Naha City Citizens' Hall -- big hall [meaning large room]
-- Sponsor: World Matsubayashi Karatedo Federation
-- ??? : Magamine Shoshin xxxxx Club.
===============

The second one with photo:
(Celebration) Nagamine Shoshin Hanshi
-- xxxxxxxxxx Enbu Taikai
-- Former Ryukyu Prefectural Education xx President
-- OHAMA HOUEI [don't even think about asking me!! :D ]
-- Hometown Ryukyu Club
President: Matsuoka Masabo [I'm guessing the "bo" portion]
--OHAMA HOUEI XX CLUB
Pres: xxxxxx
Naha City Uenoya 259 (Seikichi Bldg.) Tel, 61-7111
===============
Third one -- too small to read, but the right side looks like "Matsubayashi Ryu humanity's xxxxxxxxxxxx"
===============

Fourth one -- too small to read a'tall!

Cheers,
Guy

ghp
26th January 2003, 20:44
Mac,

That is more likely the "Nihon Kobudo-kai" meaning Japan Ancient Martial Ways Association.

In Okinawa, the term "kobudo" seems to mean Okinawan weaponry used in conjunction with karate (I may be wrong, but that is my observation); whereas, in Japan "kobudo" refers to all ancient fighting styles (minus the "shin-budo" such as karate, aikido, and perhaps even Daitoryu Aikijujutsu). Hmmmm .... wait -- that rings a bell .... I seem to recall (not too clearly) that because of Morio Higaonna sensei's book, Goju-ryu is now officially listed as a koryu because he was able to document its history.

Higaonna, Morio, 1995 History of Karate: Goju-Ryu
(Thousand Oaks, CA: Dragon Books) , 226pp, 6" x 9" illus. (paperback) $34.95
For a review of the book see http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Products/Pages/books_gojuhistrev.html

Regarding Don -- Mr. Sacharnoski has filed legal action against him and the case has yet to be heard. I'm surprised Don would even entertain the thought of sending you copies of what he's received from Mr. Sacharnoski's lawyer through the "discovery" process. I would quickly give Don my address if I wanted the documentation he has.

Regards,
Guy

DustyMars
4th July 2004, 14:48
Sometimes when I am in the mood to remember my younger days my time at Nagamine sensei's dojo come to mind. I left Okinawa around this time of the year in 1962. A long time ago. He will always be remembered.

BTW, I was there when Sacharnoski is alledged to have been there on Okianwa and he claims to have been some USMC Judo champ. What a crock.

Old Dragon
11th July 2004, 08:30
Isshin-ryu World Karate Association
Kichiro Shimabuku- 1st born son of Tatsuo Sensei.
http://www.isshinryukarate.com/

Okinawa Isshin-ryu Karate & Kobudo Association
Angi Uezu- Son in law of Tatsuo Sensei. Uezu turned OIKKA over to Tsuyoshi Uechi due to
health problems.
http://www.oikka.com/

Isshin-Kai
Arcenio Advincula- 1st generation student of Tatsuo Sensei. Tatsuo Sensei nicknamed
Advincula "Katagwa" (kataman) because of his knowledge of kata.
http://isshin1.com/

If I missed something, it is because my knowledge is limited.


If I may update some of this.Joey Paden, Maryland [/B][/QUOTE]

1. Kichiro, to my knowledge, is no longer activly promoting IR, I may be wrong here but I think his organization no longer has a root in Okinawa, I am really stepping out here and maybe if anyone knows different they can let me know.

2. Angi did retire and a year or so later Mr. Uechi gave it back to him. Mr. Uechi came to visit Mr. Advincula, and both these men are now working on teaching Isshin ryu as Shimabuku meant it to be done.

Yes I am a tad biased, Advincula sensei is my sensei. This is to my knowledge the most up to date info.

There is lots of politics (as there is in many styles once the grand master passes on) in Isshin Ryu. Basiclly today exists a following of Ungi in North America and in the last 15 years a growing following of Advincula. Advincula was senior to Ungi in the dojo and Shimabuku nicked named him Katagwa or kata man. Many of the marines that trained with Shimabuku did one or two tours of duty, a tour of duty being approx/. 18 months. Advincula trained with Shimabuku for 8 years and to this day visits Mrs. Shimabuku, Ceso the younger son and other first generation students in an effort to clarify the history and details of the style. Many of the north american masters are excellent martial artists, but many have not sought out the real teachings of Shimabuku. I originally trained with a sensei in IR that was several generations removed from the source, when I started with Advincula sensei in the 90's it was a difference between night and day.

Didnt mean to tell my story but the clarification of the true teachings of IR do need to be clarified.

Mike O'Leary

justincole06
16th May 2006, 21:42
Okinawan Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito Karate Kobudo Federation
Grandmaster Fusei Kise
www.matsumura-seito.com

armanox
28th May 2007, 03:26
www.ihadojo.com

Iha Sensei is the North American representitive
for Miyahira's ShiDo Kan dojo. Miyahira and Nakazato
Sensei were both students of Chibana.

But not the only one. Iha is by all means the highest ranking representitive (10th dan) in the states, but over here we have a 8th dan and a few 7th dans via Takeshi Miyagi, another of Miyahira's students.

On that note, I don't know of an "official site" for Kobayashi Shorin Ryu; in the states Iha's is a pretty good pic, so would be kobayashiusa.com. I'll search for an Okinawan site.