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jezah81
11th August 2004, 03:03
I was wondering if any of you will be able to help me understand a response i was given by Rick from swordstore.com, after i asked him if it was OK to cut with my steel iaito even though the fuchi has become loose (due to shrinkage), and the tsuba has started rattling. This is what he answered me:
"It will have no bearing so sadly cutting will be wholly dependent upon
operator skill sets...".
Can anyone explain what he meant by that?
Kind regards,

Soulend
11th August 2004, 03:17
:laugh:

That's a classic.

jezah81
11th August 2004, 03:22
Whats that supposed to mean? lol, im getting real confused!
Regards,

Jock Armstrong
11th August 2004, 03:54
Loose fuchi and tsuba themselves don't matter a toss. He was intimating that your skill level is the only variable relevant to cutting. Try iserting a leather seppa closest to the fuchi. That should tighten up the tsuba.:beer:

jezah81
12th August 2004, 01:59
Thanks clearing things for me.
Kind Regards,

jezah81
12th August 2004, 02:04
What i actually meant by my question is that seeing the fuchi and tsuba are loose, will it affect the tsuka in anyway seeing it might not be able to resist the shock better than if it was tight.
Kind regards,

Soulend
12th August 2004, 03:20
Why not simply fix it with a leather or thin copper seppa and not worry about it?

Snake Charmer
12th August 2004, 04:26
Place Vaseline, or petroleum jelly, on the nakago. This will tighten the fuchi considerably; it creates a "reverse shrinkage" effect.

Kriss
12th August 2004, 04:44
Originally posted by Snake Charmer
Place Vaseline, or petroleum jelly, on the nakago. This will tighten the fuchi considerably; it creates a "reverse shrinkage" effect.

Good tip, I'll keep that...

Cheers.

Brian Owens
12th August 2004, 05:35
Originally posted by jezah81
What i actually meant by my question is that seeing the fuchi and tsuba are loose, will it affect the tsuka in anyway seeing it might not be able to resist the shock better than if it was tight.
Kind regards,

If you have a tight tsuka and tight mekugi, then a loose fuchi & tsuba shouldn't matter. After all, testing of blades is often done with a tameshigiri handle with no tsuba.

I like the way Rick put it; "It will have no bearing so sadly cutting will be wholly dependent upon operator skill sets...".
No one to blame for a bad cut but yourself. ;)

Charles Mahan
12th August 2004, 14:54
It might be easier to read if the punctuation was a little better... "It will have no bearing. So sadly, cutting will be wholly dependent upon operator skill sets...".

I'd suggest removing your mekugi and checking it. It might be a bent mekugi rather than shrinkage. That would allow the tsuka to slide just a touch down the nakago opening up enough of a gap to make the tsuba a tad loose.

In a pinch you could always use unwaxed dental floss. Not a perfect solution, but good enough short term. Floss won't compress so you can just wind some in between the seppa and fuchi. A little tricky to get started, but it's not that hard.

jclott
13th August 2004, 03:15
charles & a few others are right on with their advice, as with most simple machines, average katana are going to
show tolerance issues in the fit and integrity of spacers & cosmetic parts when hard use is the norm... just expect it, and fix things as they arrise... jc

pgsmith
13th August 2004, 04:20
Place Vaseline, or petroleum jelly, on the nakago. This will tighten the fuchi considerably; it creates a "reverse shrinkage" effect.
Is it just me, or does this seem like a really bad thing to do to a sword? I have been taught that it is the pressure fit of the nakago inside the tsuka that holds the sword together. I have also been taught that excessive oil will lead to weakening of the structural integrity of honoki. This bit of advice seems to violate both of those tenets and will result in a sword that is likely to fly off the handle (I love puns!) if put to hard use. I'm sorry but based on what I have been taught, and have learned myself, this would be a very wrong thing to do under any circumstances.

Someone feel free to educate me if I'm mistaken.

Walker
13th August 2004, 08:32
Originally posted by Snake Charmer
"reverse shrinkage" effect Sounds suspiciously like some of that there swelling effect. I guess it sure aught to do some swelling being lubed up and all... all we need is to get a good "wringing" tenouchi. :mst:

Soulend
13th August 2004, 11:03
I'd be a bit leery of doing this. I recently and regrettably used a little vegetable oil to try and expand the wooden blade cover of a sushi knife I have - the cover had become loose to the point where it would simply fall off. The oil caused it to split in half over the course of a few days.

Additionally I was taught never to oil a nakago for this reason - that it will damage the tsuka core. Kind of like allowing oil to penetrate into a wooden rifle stock, I imagine.

Unless there's something special about Vaseline that I don't know about....

Jerry O'Brien
13th August 2004, 12:28
"I took the liberty of asking Rick about his comments to Jeremy and he asked the following question:

Did Jeremy write the WHOLE story?

Rick stated to me that he had asked if a strand of dental floss could be placed between the seppa and the fuchi? The answer from Jeremy was, "No, it was too tight.”

That also meant that it was too tight to accommodate a seppa thickness by far.... to which swordstore concluded that this was much ado about nothing!"



Jerry O’Brien
Beikoku Rembukan

jezah81
15th August 2004, 10:11
Thanks all you guys for the advice. Its true what you say Jerry,but i did not meant to say "No, it was too tight.” I actually meant "i thought it might be too tight." There seems to be a bigger gap between the habaki and seppa on one side than the other. I dont see how the mekugi couldve bent, its a new one. Only 2 months old.
Kind Regards,

Brian Owens
15th August 2004, 10:35
Originally posted by jezah81
...I dont see how the mekugi couldve bent, its a new one. Only 2 months old.
The sword is only 2 months old, or the menuki is 2 months old replacing the original in an older sword?

If the latter, that could explain it too. The tsuka may not have been fully seated when the new mekugi was put in. Even when the mekugiana in the nakago seems to be lined up with the mekugiana in the tsuka it may not be. Using the tapered end of the mekugi hammer as a probe may reveal a slight difference.

Not saying this is the cause in your case, just saying it's one example of what can go wrong.

jezah81
15th August 2004, 10:41
I meant the mekugi is about 2 months old. The sword is over a year old. Thank you for your reply Mr. Kenshi. If i leave it the way it is, will it have any bad effect on the tsuka core?
Kind regards,

Brian Owens
15th August 2004, 12:12
Originally posted by jezah81
...If i leave it the way it is, will it have any bad effect on the tsuka core?
If the tsuka is tight on the nakago, and the only movement is in the fuchi, seppa, and tsuba, then it should be okay.

If there is any movement of the tsuka on the nakago, then it could cause failure of the mekugi.

Frankly, if there is any concern then to be safe I would recommend sending your sword to a competent token or other qualified person to have a it examined and a new tsuka fitted if required.

I understand that this may not be convenient nor inexpensive where you live, but better to be safe than sorry.

Since the sword came from SwordStore.com, though, I would say that advice from them should have more weight than anything I or others can add. They have been good about answering e-mails from me in the past, and I'm sure would do the same for you. Just be as clear as you can in describing the situation so you don't get anymore "cryptic" answers from them, as well intentioned as the first one may have been.

(And I wouldn't add Vaseline, water, choji, or any other foreign gunk to my sword below the habaki, if I were you. A leather seppa or dental floss, maybe, but no goop.)

Hope this helps, and good luck.

George Kohler
15th August 2004, 14:39
Originally posted by jclott
just expect it, and fix things as they arrise... jc

Please sign your posts with your full name. It is a rule here on E-Budo.

jezah81
16th August 2004, 10:52
You were right Mr. Kenshi. I found out that the mekugi ana in the tsuka isnt exaclt aligned with the ana in the tang and thats what has caused the tsuka to slip down the tang. I have used the dental floss to tighten everything up, works great, but i was wondering if this is a long term fix or just a quick temporary one?
Kind regards,