Isshin Ryu vs. Isshin Ryu

[Jason Chambers]

Can anyone here provide authentic history of Okinawan Isshin Ryu and its connections, if any, to the Japanese Isshin Ryu that was most noted for its use of the Kusarigama?

Please, no "well, there's the Angi Uezu interpretation and then there's the AJ Advincula interpretation."

[George Kohler]

Hi Jason,

There is no connection between the Isshin Ryu kusarigama and Isshin Ryu Karate.

[Jason Chambers]

Can always depend on you for a quick answer. Now, how about any difference between the two styles of Uezu and Advincula?

Is there any difference aside from the shape of the Migami patch?

[kusanku]

Advincua is available at http://www.sanchin.com for questons if you have them. he also has an article up on the site, where he talks about Angi Uezu, and the fact that whle he was on Okinawan training,Uezu, Shimabuku's son-in-law, wasn't very nteresed in karate until the last few months.

He has a picture of an interesting banquet where he is seated at the table with his sandan(Advincula) belt on, and his student, Angi Uezu, stands respectfullty behind him, wearing his Green Belt.

That's right, Angi Uezu was Advincula's student n Isshinryu, and was a Green Belt when Advincula was a sandan, on Okinawa, teaching classes.

The megami patch was actually designed by Advincula, and the one most Isshinryu people wear is an outline of Advincula's fist.

Advincula supports Uezu's present tenth dan rank,although Uexu started, after and under him, in 1962, I believe, but only claims a sixth dan for himself, the one Tatsuo Shimabuku promoted him to.

Based on this evience, I do not believe there to be any 'conflict ' between styles of Uezu and Advincula,as they are both in the same style,thugh not organization, and Advincula is Uezu's senior and former instructor.

Go to the site at http://www.sanchin.com and read Advincula's articles, they are supported with photographic documentation and expose a lot of lies told about Isshinryu, by a lot of people.

Thing is, facts are facts, Advincula was there when he says he was, and as long and as many times, and not many if any others were.He was about the most senior American student of Isshinryu, claims of others when he is not around to the contrary.he has the documents and the photos to prove it.

One f Shimabuku's former senior Okinawan students, now a tenth dan in Okinawan kenpo, named Seikichi Odo, was also at that anquet, stating, 'In my heart I will always be Isshinryu.'

My teacher was Odo's senior American student of Okinawan Kenpo, before he left that org, and I was is senior practicing student at one time also, and there was a court case over use of the name Okinawan Kenpo, in which we won,because of an eight millimeter film of kata, kihon and kumite training which feateured my sensei from the sixties and seventies on, with some of his student, doing Okinawan Kenpo kata , kihon, goshijutsu,and sparring before the claimants were in the U.S.

Simnce I am also on the composite reel from white belt to shodan to instructor, from 1972 to about 1980, I can personally atttest the power of pictures.:-)

The other schools were saying they were here first, we had the prooff that that was not so, we were here first. Advincua has the goods in Isshinryu, the same way.If it ever came to a court case, he would win, hands down.

Any other questions?:-)

[Edited by kusanku on 11-01-2000 at 02:45 PM]

[Jason Chambers]

No sir.. I think that will do. I simply was asking because I had been told by an Isshinryu instructor here (R. Tarver) that there were many differences between the two. Something about blocking methods (forearm muscle vs forearm bone) and punching methods (verticle vs horizontal fist).

I thank you for the URL. I will certainly visit.

[kusanku]

Well, as far as I know, all Isshinryu uses the forearm muscle for blocking and all use the verticalfist. maybe some have chaged that, but that's the way tatsuo left it when he passed on. Now, oroiginally, he used the other two methods, but that was a while back.

Unless Uezu went back to the standard Shorin and Goju usage.

In One kata, sanchin, Isshinryu does retain the twist punch and outer bcck,, however, as it is necessary to the purpose of the kata to do it that way.

It is a good site, http://www.sanchin.com
Much good information and many good articles.Also a BBS.

Where AJA (Advincula) can be contacted and asked questions.He is a nice guy, too!

[Victor Smith]

As an Isshinryu practionier, unaligned with any of the groups within the Isshinryu community, except through my instructors who are retired, I regret to inform you the picture of who's senior in Isshinryu is vastly more complex than you've related.

Of the American's, Advincula Sensei is among the most senior being there in Shimabuku Tatsuo's early years of instructing Marines. He likewise has most time on the islands with Shimabuku Tatsuo.

But contemporary Isshinryu is a very fractured system, with many, many subgroupings and group heads. None of which negate the technical capabilites of Isshinryu, but make for an extremely complex political landscape.

For example, Advincula Sensei is no longer associated with the owner of http://www.Sanchin.com. Some of his earlier writings are there and they have merit as one choses.

Personally I see the development of Isshinryu karate after the death of Shimabuku Tatsuo, a parallel found too many times when a style founder passes on with no clear succession plan. One vastly wiser than I must determine whether this is good or bad for the arts. I will state this is not an American situation, and appears to happen too frequently around the world in many arts.

Isshinryu does exist as a 'general' force of karate. Its different groups all have concrete existance, abet different from each other, too. Isshinryu does exist on Okinawa today, too.

Would that the seniors, everywhere, had considered how to keep their house in order.

[kusanku]

Victor updates on snachin.com.

Thanks Victor, I hadn't been there for a while.

As for Advicula, I said he was Tatsuo's senior American student, I believe, so that was right.

I left a great number of political details of Isshinryu out, not intending to give a history of the Kichiro/Uezu/everyone else on Okinawa nine million American judans/Advicula senior to them all but sixth dan/situations/ splits/whatever else..

'Would that seniors everwythwhere had considered how to keep their house in order .'

Amen, Brother. Amen.

Same situation exists in many styles and schools.More than anyone probably realizes.

And to think it all started with one guy for Naha ti and one for shuri ti and one for tomariti, and they all knew each other as friends.

That will happen when rank and seeking of preference enter in, every time. Every single time.

[Hank Irwin]

Sir,
I believe most of what Shimabuku- Sensei had to offer his students was lost with his un-timely death. Just what he had to offer from O'Sensei Kyan alone would have been immense. Much bunkai was lost, much. Since the late '80's My teacher, Kyoshi Roy Osborne/Okinawan Shorinji-ryu has been involved with many Isshin-ryu KarateKa, including Advicula-Sensei, in Michigan and through-out Canada teaching them what their systems bunkai means. Without correct bunkai for the deshi a system is lost.
Sensei Hank Irwin