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View Full Version : Strikes v2.0: What is your atemi?



davoravo
2nd November 2000, 00:51
Leaping off the to strike or not to strike thread - what atemi does everyone use? For a while at my dojo we stopped using fists and switched to open palm atemi. A fist vs face is quite dangerous for the puncher; fractures are common (the jaw is much more solid than the bones of the hand) and even worse, bite injuries to the knuckle and secondary infection are common (this can ruin the joint for life).

However, I found an open palm lacked the satisfying "spirit" of mitsusibushi and also required too large an investment of intention (risking reversal). This can be compensated for with a rising strike. Also my sensei would sometimes use pressure points under the jaw or in the temperomandibular joint instead of atemi.

Speak ...

Nick
2nd November 2000, 01:45
the technique depends on the attack. In the dojo I usually use open palm and don't connect (or hit the hand strategically place in front of their face), but in a 'real' situation I'd hit them. Of course, kicks are convienant for things like ryote-tori...

Not to reopen a can of worms, but I personally feel that atemi is one of the least covered part of Aikido... if a person is centered and doesn't wanna move, you can either get one amazing lead, or just hit them and loosen them up....

However, I will give way, and ask if any of the higher-ups (I.E. people, who unlike me know what they're talking about ;)) would like to take a crack at it.

Thanks for lending me a soapbox...

Nick Porter

Kevin Myers
2nd November 2000, 15:25
I personally prefer a nice front kick to the legs but a quick finger jab to the eyes will also do the trick. I've found that it takes little effort to perform techniques once a small distraction has been accompished.

RDeppe
2nd November 2000, 17:14
I would have to say that's there's no reason to limit yourself. Fingers, feet, elbows, palms, fist(s), knees. There are times when they are all good.

Atemi with all these parts involve different maia. So...

As far as hurting your hand, hit a makiwara (doesn't entirely make the problem go away) but I would worry alot more about breaking my partner/attacker. Back in my Tomiki days a broke a rib of my best friend during randori. Oops.

Best of luck.

szczepan
2nd November 2000, 22:48
I'm using very large range of "atemi" - from "no contact atemi" to light/medium strikes/push.I'm using hands, legs, head,hips, buttocks, and sometimes whole body.

One day one of high ranking student tryied to block my nikkyo with his elbow straight...So I had to find peaceful solution: first I petended to break his elbow with my forearm, he only smiled, so I very fast but very lightly touched his nose with my open hand - it incited his reaction(closed eyes, changing fokus of his power for a while) and muscles of his arm relaxed a bit - it was enought to apply nikkyo.

Other day very strong intermediary student during katadori attack pushed very strong my shoulder - I had to push open palm to his face rather strongly to preserve balace of technique...

So depend of level sensibility of attacker I try to develop very fine range of atemi.Also neccessity to deliver atemi happens cos attacker doesn't respect rules of fighting I believe.

Ron Tisdale
3rd November 2000, 14:21
Now *there's* an oxymoron....

Ron Tisdale


ps Just to be clear, I was refering to rules and fighting....
RT

[Edited by Ron Tisdale on 11-03-2000 at 10:22 AM]

szczepan
4th November 2000, 04:01
Originally posted by Ron Tisdale
Now *there's* an oxymoron....

Ron Tisdale


ps Just to be clear, I was refering to rules and fighting....
RT

[Edited by Ron Tisdale on 11-03-2000 at 10:22 AM]

so you don't believe there are rules in fighting?

regardz

autrelle
5th November 2000, 05:03
i don't think there is a reason to assume any opponent will respect "the rules of fighting." this is just my opinion.

Nick
5th November 2000, 13:43
If an opponent seems to be composed and have some sort of etiquette ("fighting rules"), that would just make me want to fight him less...

Nick Porter

szczepan
5th November 2000, 14:44
I'll try to write more clear what I understand by that.For me it isn't etiquette of any sort.Instead, it is all kind of behaviors to be lees vunerable possible when you have to fight,to use any opportunity (any weapon at hand),any opening, respecting distance, timing,etc...

As average attacker isn't conscious most of those things he is open to my atemi - and not cos I don't like him or I want to win ....hehe.if somebody close most of his openings when attacking, I have to use very correct technique(looking for hidden openings) to be able to throw him and there is much less place for atemi art.
here atemi can mean use of any weapon also instead of empty hand.
I believe use of atemi is part of strategy and tactics, which isn't teach often by aikido instructors.I dont understand why.

regardz

davoravo
5th November 2000, 21:11
I thought atemi were there to create openings. In an opponent who is wide open there would be no need and you could move to a throw or pin. In a closed opponent you would neeed to create movement and space to generate openings and use atemi to do this.

Also I think learning strategy is a matter of "Training with sincerity" - this is my current obsession as I have just realised that at some stage I stopped training with sincerity and my aikido greatly suffered for a few years. This applies particularly to partner ken kata where training with right attitude leads one to perceive openings and opportunity for "attack".

szczepan
6th November 2000, 16:08
Originally posted by davoravo
I thought atemi were there to create openings. In an opponent who is wide open there would be no need and you could move to a throw or pin. In a closed opponent you would neeed to create movement and space to generate openings and use atemi to do this.

Also I think learning strategy is a matter of "Training with sincerity" - this is my current obsession as I have just realised that at some stage I stopped training with sincerity and my aikido greatly suffered for a few years. This applies particularly to partner ken kata where training with right attitude leads one to perceive openings and opportunity for "attack".

....hmhm....I don't know....I think openings are there, in the moment of attack.Fist contact is exactly in this place, where opening is.After first contact there is no time for anything then throw.As every technique normally is done as you count "ONE", it is hardly time to create anything else.
I see first contact as "atemi"(mind+body).
I began to train sincerity as uke, attacking with all my heart.Ones you do it as natural attack, you can do it being tori as well.

regardz

Sheridan
6th November 2000, 18:43
Please forgive my step into the aikido forum, But I haven't seen anybody mention elbows yet. Try planting an elbow on your way through doing Shiho nagi, your uke will STAY nice and relaxed instead of choking up on your aiki while you throw. Elbows are often ignored as means for atemi, which is kind or ridiculous considering how much the elbow is used for throws.