Ryu-ha that include Hanbo

[TIM BURTON]

Can anyone tell me the origins of the Hanbo and where it sits in respect of traditional Japanese weaponry.
Was it a specialised weapon? Are there systems solely devoted to Hanbo or is it only taught in conjunction with another art?

[Just some guy]

I can tell you what I know. As far as I can tell the hanbo isn't really taught as a specific art. Thought I do remember hearing of a hanbo ryu, if memroy serves me correctly then it is buried in Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu. Other than that I only know of a few schools that teach the hanbo as a skill. These are Hontai Yoshin Ryu and Kukishin Ryu though there may be others as well that I just don't know about. In both of these schools, there is much more to learn than just the hanbo. In fact the Kukishin ryu has relatively few techniques on the hanbo and the rokushaku bo has much more work on it. Read into that what you will.

As for the origen of the hanbo, that is kind of like asking where the rokushaku bo came from. There really isn't an easy answer to that one. a possibilits woudl go along the lines oof a possible bojutsu origen saying that the bo was taken from a spear or naginata that had its point broken off in combat. It's just as likely to brake such a weapon in the middle. beyond that I haven't a clue. Any takers?

[john mark]

http://koryu.com/guide/uchida.html

Hope this is helpful.

Best,

[Edited by john mark on 02-04-2001 at 12:24 PM]

[shinja]

Hello all,

I was flipping through Hatsumi's & Chambers' Hanbo book and had a couple of questions.

- Is this Chambers fellow still around?

- Are the techniques depicted in the book kihon or are they henka?

- I understand that SMR contains a hanbo system, is it as developed as what is depicted in the book? And at what stage in a student's training is the weapon taught?

thanks!

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by shinja

- Is this Chambers fellow still around?

- Are the techniques depicted in the book kihon or are they henka?


I don't know the SMR question, but for the other two I can answer.

Mr. Chambers is still around. He is located in Hawai'i

The techniques in this book are based on:
Asayama Ichiden ryu and maybe Tenshin Ko ryu - For the short stick

For the hanbo, it is based on henka.

[charlesl2]

The back of the book indicates that the techniques are from the Kukishin ryu, or something like that. I don't know how or if that relates to the Asayama Ichiden ryu (not saying it doesn't, I just don't know).

The tanjojutsu in SMR, I think, is a totally different animal, called Uchida ryu, and I only remember there being 12 kata for that, and all against a swordsman.

Chambers is still around, and teaches SMR jo in Honolulu. I remember him showing me a small amount of the Kukishin stuff a few years ago. I've heard other students with more experience with it jokingly refer to it as "Quintin's Pain Sticks." The stuff really hurts.

What's a "henka?" I thought that meant "modification" or something, but that doesn't seem to be the context.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by charlesl2
The back of the book indicates that the techniques are from the Kukishin ryu, or something like that. I don't know how or if that relates to the Asayama Ichiden ryu (not saying it doesn't, I just don't know).

I'm sorry, forgot to include Kukishin ryu for short stick. I was in a rush for a meeting.

There is a form that is based on Asayama Ichiden ryu hishigi. In Asayama Ichiden ryu the hishigi can be used on all taijutsu kata, but this is not taught until higher levels. If you look on page 100, the kata is called "hiki otoshi" and looks almost like the taijutsu kata "hiki otoshi".


Originally posted by charlesl2
What's a "henka?" I thought that meant "modification" or something, but that doesn't seem to be the context.


Variation is the context I was using. The original hanbo forms are against sword or short sword.

[charlesl2]

What's a "higishi?" Is that the smaller stick that the protagonist uses? I remember seeing something about an/the "eda koppa" technique(s?). I just don't know what that means.

By taijutsu ..., something similar to jujutsu? Sorry, not familiar with the term.

I'll check out the technique you're referring to.

I see what you mean now by henka. I always think of henka as "that tiny alteration the antagonist makes to his technique that gets the protagonist killed." I thought the original reference was asking if they were kihon or kata, and thinking that maybe in that context henka could mean kata. Just slow, I guess.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by charlesl2
What's a "higishi?" Is that the smaller stick that the protagonist uses? I remember seeing something about an/the "eda koppa" technique(s?). I just don't know what that means.

Don't know the exact meaning of "hishigi", but in Asayama Ichiden ryu and Tenshin Ko ryu (also called Shinto Tenshin ryu) it is a stick that's 8-10 inches long.


Originally posted by charlesl2
By taijutsu ..., something similar to jujutsu? Sorry, not familiar with the term.

It is the same as jujutsu. In Asayama Ichiden ryu it is refered as taijutsu.

[Chuck Clark]

Mr. "Shinja"

It is customary on E-Budo to sign your posts with your name so that we may know who we're communicating with.

I see by your profile that you listed Jiyushinkai Aikibudo as an affiliation. Welcome to the jo forum. I'm looking forward to knowing who you are so that we can communicate better.

Regards,

[shinja]

Sorry all.

hmm.... something is up with my profile. My signature seems to have disappeared and it won't let me edit it. :cry:

I'll have to email the e-budo administrator dude.


:smilejapa: Sensei, my name is Steven Bittle. I have just recently started study (within the last couple of weeks) in the Jiyushinkai with David Martin Sensei in OKC, OK.

Once again sorry for the confusion guys.

Steve

[Chuck Clark]

Again, Welcome Steven. I'm looking forward to meeting you soon. Stick with David, he's a good budoka and instructor.

Regards,

[Neil Hawkins]

As an aside, we use the term "hishigi" a lot in jujutsu to refer to a "crushing" joint lock as opposed to a twisting or hineri type of lock. Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu teach the same lock done with the hands, short (palm sized) sticks, tanbo, hanbo and even jo in some cases.

Obviously the stick adds an element of pain and leverage that is impossible with the hands alone, so I can relate to Charles' comment about "Quintin's pain sticks". The worst are leg or ankle locks. I can still literally "feel" the pain as I remember being locked repeatedly during a photo session about 13 years ago. I only have to look at the picture and I start limping! :)


I also find the book very useful, the stick is by far my favourite weapon!

Regards

Neil

[Meik Skoss]

As mentioned by other posters, "hishigi" means "crushing" and is a term found in a number of "unarmed" arts such as judo, jujutsu and aikido, as well as in some systems that use small concealed weapons.

I'm the one who, at the IJF Gasshuku in '93, first referred to Quintin Chamber's hanbo as his "Pain Stick(s)," as well as to units of pain (normally called "dols") as "quintins." If you've never had the pleasure, you must feel it to believe, or appreciate it. As was said in an earlier post, the leg, knee, and ankle techniques are the worst. There you are, without a leg to stand on and in an entire world of hurt; it will definitely make a believer out of you re: the efficacy of a simple length of wood.

I think a lot of Hatsumi's MIB weapons stuff is on the dodgy side, but he knows a thing or six about stick work, and he taught it to Chambers Sensei very well. It's a really good self-defense system.

[charlesl]

Hello M. Skoss,

Weird coincidence: this morning we were talking about pain, and SF brings up your units of pain scale. He was trying to remember how it was scaled, 1-10, 1-20, ?.

-Charles Lockhart
Honolulu, HI

[Meik Skoss]

The Quintin Scale goes from 1~10. However, since it's graduated the same as the Richter Scale (for earthquakes), and the numbers increase at an exponential rate, a "perfect 10" is scarcely imaginable.

Did I mention that the Quintin Scale is closely related to what is called the "Pleasure-Pain Principle" ("it gives me great pleasure to cause you such tremendous pain.")? Probably not, as that'd just be too weird, right? And no, people don't wear leather keiko gi when they do Quintin's Pain Sticks.

[Neil Hawkins]

The other weird thing is that those of us that know how it should feel, will train the student based on feel rather than observation.

"No, that's not quite right, hold the stick further to your right. No, back the other way. Aaagh! That's better, now bring your elbows closer together, more, more. Eeeaargh! Perfect."

What does that say about us?

I won't even go into the hojojutsu practice! ;)

Neil

[Seishin]

A question for Daniel Lee,

I have also been studying the Shinto Tenshin Koryu Kempo (mainly the Kempo Taijutsu - Soden Roku, but also some Tanbo). I recently got hold of the books by Iwaki Hideo Sensei and noticed some differences to what Ueno Sensei must have taught. In the booklet made in connection within 20th year of Ueno Sensei's death there is an overview written by Kaminaga Shigemi, the current soke of Shinto Tenshin Koryu. This overview does not correspond 100% with the various sections of techniques in Iwaki Sensei's books. Do you know if all of the techniques and series of Iwaki Sensei's books are original Shinto Tenshin Koryu from Ueno Sensei, or if this is his own interpretation and structure? He writes at the end of most of the series of techniques that this has been passed down from Ueno Takashi Tenshin Sensei.

Do you know of any other books about Shinto Tenshin Koryu? (by Kaminaga Sensei or Kobayashi Sensei?)

Many thanks and best regards,

Flemming Madsen
Denmark

[George Kohler]

Hi Flemming,

To answer your last question, yes. I have a book about Shinto Tenshin Ko ryu, but it is not written by Kaminaga or Kobayashi sensei. It is written by 3 persons and one of them is Ueno Takashi's brother (But I think the brother had already passed away when the book was printed).

[Seishin]

Daniel,

Thanks very much for your reply. Iwaki-S split with Himori-S does explain the difference in the curriculum. Can I ask if you are part of the Hon-ke line? Do you study with Kaminaga-S? (sorry about my in-discretion!) I met him four years ago in Nobeoka at my teacher's dojo, and I was very impressed with his performance (- and I can confirm the "feel"!)

George,

Also, a thank you to you for the info on the book. I am aware of that one (but do not have it myself)

- and to all: Sorry for starting this "off-topic question"!!

Flemming

[George Kohler]

Let me add before I get a flood of e-mail about this book. This book does not have much on techniques/kata. There are some jujutsu drawings from the densho, one bojutsu kata (pictures), several karate-style kata (pictures), and some pictures of Ueno Takashi sensei. It is mostly on the structure and history of this school.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by George Kohler
Let me add before I get a flood of e-mail about this book. This book does not have much on techniques/kata. There are some jujutsu drawings from the densho, one bojutsu kata (pictures), several karate-style kata (pictures), and some pictures of Ueno Takashi sensei. It is mostly on the structure and history of this school.

HOW LONG has this thread been untouched?! Over three years!!

Anyway, I just ordered this book and will get it in the mail tomorrow, available from Kinokuniya...
http://bookweb2.kinokuniya.co.jp/htm/4906631398.html

The book's index looks interesting enough...

[Harlan]

Hello all. New to MA, and don't know where to start. It is hit or miss trying to find books and videos on bo/jo...and I don't want to buy into a lot of bad stuff to find the good.

Can you suggest a must get/read list of books/videos that I can acquire?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Mekugi]

Start here:

STICK FIGHTING (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0870114751/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-9634372-9424648#reader-link)

BTW...the moderators will take a piece out of you for not signing your real name. You can do that by clicking the "User CP" button up above and then clicking "Edit Profile" and enter your name in your signature to do it automatically. Or just sign your name on every post.

[Harlan]

Got it from Barnes today. Fascinating to a newbie! Am reading with interest the comments regarding this book on e-budo.

Any more suggestions for must reads? I want to learn as much as possible about the histories of different schools that have bo or jo. Am particularly interested in Kobudo bo kata at the moment.

Thank you!

[Mekugi]

Really, the only other one I could recommend, which is really hard to find, is :

Pascal Kreiger "Jodo ?ELa Voie du Baton/The Way of the Stick" (French-English).

Mind you, it's not cheap.

If you are interested in Shinto Muso Ryu Jo, you should really go and check it out. One place to start is Shinto Muso Ryu (http://shinto-muso-ryu.org/).

MORE ABOUT SMR JO (http://koryu.com/guide/muso.html)

This is something you really have to be into if you want to study it, and it's not really a passing fancy type of martial art.

Also, there is Arnis/Escrima, which is more readily available to train in using baston, or rattan sticks.

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Buchan
...Am particularly interested in Kobudo bo kata at the moment.
Nihon Kobudo or Ryukyu Kobudo?

If you're intersted in Ryukyu Kobudo then I recommend Fumio Demura Sensei's Bo: Karate Weapon of Self-Defense as a good, very basic, introduction.

For Nihon Kobudo, Otake Risuke's The Deity and the Sword: Volume 1 has photo sequences of six Katori Shinto Ryu bo kata with English and Japanese captions.

As for jo, if you want to compare Aikijo with other jo forms you're studying, then I recommend Dave Lowry's Jo: Art of the Japanese Short Staff which presents an introduction to Aikijo including sanjuichi-no-jo, the 31-count jo form, along with the bunkai (applications).

HTH.

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by Mekugi
HOW LONG has this thread been untouched?! Over three years!!

Anyway, I just ordered this book and will get it in the mail tomorrow, available from Kinokuniya...
http://bookweb2.kinokuniya.co.jp/htm/4906631398.html

The book's index looks interesting enough...

Hi Russ,

Good to see this thread being resurrected. Let us know what you think about the book.

[Mekugi]

SO I took a long look at this book, with the help of my human dictionary of course, and I have to say this:

It has some issues, however it is interesting and some interesting perspectives. I was talking about it to a teacher of mine and his comment I truly agree with "Almost like Karate". It has Ueno's name on the cover as one of the authors, however most of the content was written by his students it seems. So it is a little misleading in that aspect- and it also seems to have an agenda.

For instance it insists that there is a current soke...which I thought had died out with Mr. Ueno.
I give it a C- as a grade. It would not recommend it, although I am biased in my judgement.

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by Mekugi
It has Ueno's name on the cover as one of the authors, however most of the content was written by his students it seems. So it is a little misleading in that aspect- and it also seems to have an agenda.

It also appears that some of the information, including lineage charts, came straight from the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. What did you think about the bo kata (or was it jo kata?) shown in the book? Looked a little strange to me.


Originally posted by Mekugi
For instance it insists that there is a current soke...which I thought had died out with Mr. Ueno.

Which school are you referring too?

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by George Kohler
It also appears that some of the information, including lineage charts, came straight from the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. What did you think about the bo kata (or was it jo kata?) shown in the book? Looked a little strange to me.

They are missing segments of the lineage there, as it was taken out of the BRD and it didn't list any others at the time. However, they did seem to manage to include their own! I didn't look at the Hishigi katas very closely ( I will at lunch ), but I did look at the kama they were doing. That was odd, but the point I think they were trying to make is that some of the "Double Stick" Hishigi kata uses the same basic format as some kama kata. I think. I didn't get that into it, so I really need to double check.




Originally posted by George Kohler
Which school are you referring too?

Shinto Tenshin Koryu.

This was renamed Tenshin Koryu Kempo due to the Japanese WWII Surrender and a GHQ "ban" on MA at one time (from what I understand).It was a panic effort to remove the kanji/word "Shinto" from the name in order to keep it from being abolished (I guess shinto was a bad word or something). It's important to note here that there was a lot of confusion going on well after the war as to the state of Japanese martial arts and the laws that were being enforced, leading to a lot of confusion.

Heh! Still carries on!

-Russ

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by Mekugi
Shinto Tenshin Koryu.

You know Kaminage Shigemi also claims to be soke of this school.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by George Kohler
You know Kaminage Shigemi also claims to be soke of this school.

Yeah I know, I think that is him in the pictures as well.

I checked out the hishigi "kata" in there during lunch. I have never seen this before, I am not sure that it's kosher. They show some of Ueno's densho for the hishigi, which is kewl, but then it kind of goes loopy. The kata is unusual.

What still gets me is the Okinawan kobudo stuff. Very odd to say the least. BTW, did you notice the picture of Ueno & Funakoshi in the front?

-Russ

[ChrisMoon]

Russ is it just me or does a lot of what is shown as Shinto Tenshin Koryu look kind of Okinawan? I was also surprised by the number of techniques they have in their collection, if I am counting right its well over 700.

Also is there some discrepency is Kaminaga's claim to being the head of that school? I just always assumed it was fact because of the other schools he inherited from Ueno Takashi.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by shinja
Hello all,

I was flipping through Hatsumi's & Chambers' Hanbo book and had a couple of questions.

- Is this Chambers fellow still around?

- Are the techniques depicted in the book kihon or are they henka?

- I understand that SMR contains a hanbo system, is it as developed as what is depicted in the book? And at what stage in a student's training is the weapon taught?

thanks!

ANYWAY I Thought I would re-visit the initial post of this thread.

1) Yep. Still teaches it too. Ouch.

2) How about "Kihon Henka".

3) A) I think it is, however opinions will vary. B) In SMR, it's usually taught after the "jo kata" have been learned.

[Mekugi]

Well, when you consider all the mainland Japanese martial arts and martial artists that influenced Shinto Teshin Ryu/Tenshin Koryu, I would say that it shouldn't appear Okinawan. That's not to say that someone couldn't make it look Okinawan easily. A good example of what I mean is on the Ueno Memorial Video; there are a few different flavors demonstrated there and it is obvious the differences they have and where their focus is.

Yep, the Kaminaga claim rages on.;) I would put him right up there with another individual in Saitama that claims the exact same thing. The Saitama person, BTW, claims Itto ryu and Tenjin Shinyo Ryu "sokeship" in addition to Shinto Tenshin ryu/Tenshin Koryu. Pshaw. The inheritance was supposed to stop #9, from there the students are numbered. All's I can say is that sometimes the family hanko need to be destroyed after one is dead.

On top of this you have the Iwaki line, who had decided to split his students into regions and let them have their own names, "Owari Tenshin Koryu Kempo" for instance. To me that makes more sense rather than of claiming "soke". He calls his flavor Seibu Tenshin Koryu Kempo, which has two major parts of kata, then three segments to the to the parts in the categories they fall under. (Hope that makes sense).

Your count is pretty accurate, however this is depending on where you go and who you talk to you; give or take about 100 techniques. After that there is henka. Oyvay. I up into the 200's myself.

Always,
-Russ



Originally posted by ChrisMoon
Russ is it just me or does a lot of what is shown as Shinto Tenshin Koryu look kind of Okinawan? I was also surprised by the number of techniques they have in their collection, if I am counting right its well over 700.

Also is there some discrepency is Kaminaga's claim to being the head of that school? I just always assumed it was fact because of the other schools he inherited from Ueno Takashi.

[ChrisMoon]

The guy I saw demonstrating about 8 years ago was someone named Kuniyuki (sp?) or something like that. I just remember him saying that Kaminaga was his teacher and I thought his stances and how he finished looked a lot like karate.

That befuddles me about the inheritance of Shinto Tenshin Ryu. I just took what I read as the truth and it seems to make sense since Ueno left him I think 4 others schools. I also read that he left it to his brother as well. Oh well I don't study it so it is none of my business. I am just really interested in the hishigi/tanbo stuff.

Concerning Iwaki Hideo I thought the Tenshin Koryu was more or less him starting his own school and taking what he knew from Shinto Tenshin Ryu and Asayama Ichiden Ryu and combining it.

By the way Russ, Ueno Takashi and Fujita Seiko each wrote books on SMR. I have copies of both and neither one resemble anything like the book that Kaminoda wrote. The techniques are very different, there is one less set, and their books contain no kihon whatsoever. Any clue on what that is all about?

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by ChrisMoon
The guy I saw demonstrating about 8 years ago was someone named Kuniyuki (sp?) or something like that. I just remember him saying that Kaminaga was his teacher and I thought his stances and how he finished looked a lot like karate.

See! There ya go!


Originally posted by ChrisMoon
That befuddles me about the inheritance of Shinto Tenshin Ryu. I just took what I read as the truth and it seems to make sense since Ueno left him I think 4 others schools. I also read that he left it to his brother as well. Oh well I don't study it so it is none of my business. I am just really interested in the hishigi/tanbo stuff.

From what I understand Ueno Takashi retired, everything was more or less given to his brother Ueno Yoshiaki. After this, Yoshiaki then gave everything his his brother's disciples. From there, the stuff was supposed to be passed on via shihan. When Yoshiaki died, he was the last (9th). Bada bing!!



Originally posted by ChrisMoon
Concerning Iwaki Hideo I thought the Tenshin Koryu was more or less him starting his own school and taking what he knew from Shinto Tenshin Ryu and Asayama Ichiden Ryu and combining it.

I don't believe so however let me get back to you on this one to make sure.


Originally posted by ChrisMoon
By the way Russ, Ueno Takashi and Fujita Seiko each wrote books on SMR. I have copies of both and neither one resemble anything like the book that Kaminoda wrote. The techniques are very different, there is one less set, and their books contain no kihon whatsoever. Any clue on what that is all about?

Yeah, I've seen them and like you I have no idea what that was all about. Furthermore, there is a set of kata out there called the Matsuiden still being practiced, which dates the seitei gata.

?

-Russ

[Jack B]

Matsui-den? And did you mean "pre-dates" the seiteigata?

It's not surprising that kihon are absent, since Shimizu sensei established them in Tokyo. If Ueno and Fujita senseis trained in Kyushu, or even early on in tokyo, they may very well not have done kihon, just kata the old fashinoed way.

[ChrisMoon]

Ueno Takashi's teacher in SMR was Hioki Ryusuke at the Kodokan. I am not sure of Fujita Seiko's teacher but I am willing to venture that his teacher was probably the same guy since Ueno and Fujita were friends and students of each other as well. I think both of their books were written in the middle 1940s. I would have to go look it up.
The set that is missing in their books I *think* is gohon no midare.

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by Jack B
Matsui-den? And did you mean "pre-dates" the seiteigata?

It's not surprising that kihon are absent, since Shimizu sensei established them in Tokyo. If Ueno and Fujita senseis trained in Kyushu, or even early on in tokyo, they may very well not have done kihon, just kata the old fashinoed way.

I'm not sure what you are asking here; MATSUI-DEN is matsuiden with a hyphen.
Anyway, let me give it a shot:
Yeah (read as "yes"), they are older than the seiteigata. In fact a branch of Araki Ryu still practices them in place of the seitei because of their connection with Mr. Matsui.

Please read "dates" as in the modern speach pattern, for example "it `dates the monolithic period by 300 years" as in "dating" (Websters New World) 3) to make seem old fashioned vi 1) to belong to a definate period in the past.

What, are you thinking that these two set of kata go out on weekends for dinner, movie and dancing?:p

BTW....it's spelled "fashioned" ;)

Always,

-Russ

[Mekugi]

Originally posted by ChrisMoon
Concerning Iwaki Hideo I thought the Tenshin Koryu was more or less him starting his own school and taking what he knew from Shinto Tenshin Ryu and Asayama Ichiden Ryu and combining it.

I checked this out last night to assure I have the details straight.
However, any mistakes are my own and I apologize in advance. IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH MY GRAMMAR AND SPELLING, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF, MY PROOFREADER IS ON VACATION AND I "AIN'T BE WRITING NO BOOK JESSUP"! ;).

Mr. Ueno Takashi was the one who changed the name from "Shinto Tenshin Ryu" to "Tenshin Koryu Kempo" in the post WWII era...same thing as my last post. Mr. Iwaki Hideo formed his own school with permission from Ueno Yoshiaki, I believe, which he called "Seibu Tenshin Koryu Kempo". Whatever people are calling it today, it in fact has the same root in the "official" name which is listed in the Bugeiryuha Daijiten. Mr. Iwaki Hideo has two "parts" to his efforts. One part is his personal teaching which he includes in the form of extra kata, oyo and kihon. The other part is "older" kata coming from the Uenos, their kata, oyo and kihon. I have heard these two parts referred to as these as "naiden" and "gaiden" on occasion.

The Uenos had a "mix" or "blending" with Asayama Ichiden ryu consciously going on well before Iwaki entered the scene. Ueno Takashi was actively adding his own elements to the kata as he went along from such sources as Asayama Ichiden ryu, karate, Takagi Yoshin ryu and from his contact with Takamatsu Chosui (Note: the hishigi and dasho/dakken- this would explain why some of the hishigi looks similar to what is found in "Stick Fighting").

[Okashira]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know which ryu include Hanbo in their curruculum.
Thanks!

[George Kohler]

Here are some of the schools that I can remember.

Asayama-ryu bojutsu
Hontai Kukishin-ryu bojutsu
Tenshin Hyoho Kukishin-ryu
Hontai Yoshin-ryu jujutsu
Kukishinden Happo Bikenjutsu
Kukishinden Tenshin Hyoho
Chikubujima-ryu bojutsu
Uchida-ryu tanjojutsu (School within Shinto Muso-ryu jodo)
Tatsumi-ryu heiho
Yoshin-ryu naginatajutsu


BTW, I will move this to a better forum.

[George Kohler]

Originally posted by George Kohler

Chikubujima-ryu bojutsu

I have read that the hanbo in Chikubujima-ryu is slighly longer than a jo.

[Okashira]

Originally posted by George Kohler
I have read that the hanbo in Chikubujima-ryu is slighly longer than a jo.
When I refer to hanbo I have in mind a stick of 90cm length.
So, I guess that Chikubujima ryu doesn't include the hanbo in the sense that I set it.

I was just wondering if the Hanbo (90 cm long) was an exclusive of the Kukishin or existed in the curruculum of other ryus as well.:(

[George Kohler]

Kukishin-ryu is not the only ryuha that uses the term "hanbo" and does not own the word. Also, it is not the only school that uses a sanshaku-bo. Asayama-ryu has a hanbo that is sanshaku. I don't know about the others.

[gmlc123]

Likewise, what others call a hanbo or sanshaku bo, we in SMR call a Tanjo (not to be confused with Tanbo). The terminology between schools and/or ryu can lead to potential confusion and misunderstanding.


Originally posted by George Kohler
Kukishin-ryu is not the only ryuha that uses the term "hanbo" and does not own the word. Also, it is not the only school that uses a sanshaku-bo. Asayama-ryu has a hanbo that is sanshaku. I don't know about the others.