divided or undivided Hakama

[seskoad]

Is the undivided Hakama suitable for iaido training?

thanks

[Jock Armstrong]

There is no such thing as an "undivided" hakama. Hakama are by definition a bifurcated garment- they have two legs. An "undivided" garment is a skirt or kilt [been known to wear the plaid myself on occasion!]. If you mean wearing a yukata or kimono, I can only say I haven't seen it done but that doesn't mean you couldn't.
A few times I've had to explain that hakama are a baggy pair of pants to the uninformed who watch our batto class.
You might find the yukata somewhat revealing when you do kneeling kata however...............

[socho]

I have purchased a number of hakama, mostly from Japan, off of e-bay, looking for a nice, formal one, to go with a montsuki. Hard to find in the right length and usable condition (did finally get one). A couple of these have been the undivided ones. If your art involves forms from seiza, the undivided (andon?) ones do not allow the same range of motion as the divided ones, IMO.
(If anyone is interested, as a result of my search, I have several nice ones for sale, regular and undivided, size range for someone 5'8' to 5'6', probably. email or pm me for pics and specs.)

Dave

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
There is no such thing as an "undivided" hakama. Hakama are by definition a bifurcated garment- they have two legs. An "undivided" garment is a skirt or kilt...
Sorry Jock, but that is incorrect. There are several types of hakama, including those that look like loose trousers (nobakama), the commonly known ones that look like a divided skirt (just hakama AFAIK), and the undivided ones the name of which I can't recall (possibly andon-bakama as socho mentioned).


Originally posted by seskoad
Is the undivided Hakama suitable for iaido training?

Not really. Although often worn by female Kyudoka, it's not really suited for Iaido, Aikido, Jujutsu, or most other martial arts as it doesn't allow for proper movement in many waza, such as those that involve long steps from seiza, turning steps, leg sweeps, etc.


Originally posted by Jock Armstrong
...If you mean wearing a...kimono, I can only say I haven't seen it done but that doesn't mean you couldn't...

In fact, within some organizations, wearing formal kimono -- usually with haori -- is required at higher dan grades during demonstrations and gradings. There is a proper method for wearing a kimono under a hakama, but many people nowadays "cheat" by wearing a modified kimono called a hakamashita that is only hip-length. It's easier to move in, cooler, and more comfortable. Plus it gives a cleaner line, in my opinion, for the fashion conscious.


HTH.

[Jock Armstrong]

I know that some wear montsuki, I was referring to full length kimono without hakama. I've never seen hakama that weren't divided- learn something new every day!- is that something new?

[gmlc123]

No not new, Andon are for ceremonial use mostly nowadays. As I understand it in traditonal times they were undivided cause it's easier to relieve yourself if you know what I mean :)

[Sam17]

Dear Brian,

Could you describe the method for wearing a kimono with hakama so that it does not get in the way.

Cheers
Sam

[kenkyusha]

Get in the way how? Are you wearing tasuki?

Be well,
Jigme

[Brian Owens]

Originally posted by Sam17
Dear Brian,

Could you describe the method for wearing a kimono with hakama so that it does not get in the way.

Not really, I cheat; I wear a hakamashita (or its close cousin, an Iaidogi), or a keikogi.

But I saw my teacher's teacher do it once. Can't recall exactly, but after donning the kimono and tieing the obi he folded back the outer (left) layer of the kimono, then folded back the under (right) layer, then returned the outer layer. It looked normal at a casual glance. Then he put on the hakama in the normal way. I was told that it allowed more freedom of movement without getting ones legs tied up when moving in and out of seiza.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

P.S. I'm talking about the lower half of the kimono here, the part under the hakama; not the upper half which is visible.

[Sam17]

cheers Brain,

I will try that.

Kimono dosen't restrict my movement soo much but sometimes when moving from a more upright stance to a lower one i do get the distinct feeling the bottow of the kimono is going to rip. So THanks for the info.

Sam

[Richard Elias]

To shorten the length of a kimono for wearing hakama (it was also acceptable in the old days if one was going to be doing work that might get one's kimono dirty) take the bottom of the hem at the center seam and bring it up the back/middle to the obi and tuck it up under until a couple inches is sticking up over the top of the obi. Then take that part and tuck it down between the fold of the obi and put your hakama on as usual.

[CEB]

How do you ride a horse while wearing an undivided hakama? Side saddle???

[Richard Elias]

You don't. Split hakama were designed specifically for riding on horseback. The undivided hakama came later and were for those that needed to dress formally. Story tellers, musicians and the like would wear undivided hakama, but I doubt very much bushi would wear them.

[seskoad]

If you already bought the undivided hakama, can you just modify it to be divided?

[CEB]

Thank you

[HinodeBuddha]

The undevided hakama is used in kyudo.

[hyaku]

Originally posted by seskoad
Is the undivided Hakama suitable for iaido training?

thanks

It's usually what you get married in.

Thing is the top part (Monsuki/Kimono) comes down to the ankles. No chance to do wide leg stances.